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Originally posted by Trance-M Why? Marcus is not really looking for a Ferrari, Lambo, Pagini, Bentley, Aston Martin, Rolls, or McLaren. That's the only reason that I can imagine a list with Italian and British cars at the top.

Few key notes you're forgetting. I'd honestly recommend Marcus getting a fiat, since those are the most popular cars in Brazil. Second, what's wrong with Alfa romeo? Italian cars are the best cars in the world imho. Price range excluded. Also, I'd much rather have a mini cooper than basically anything american within that price range.

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Originally posted by Sushipunk I would definitely buy Japanese over American. Is Mazda a thing down there?

Unfortunately not. I don't think I've ever seen a Mazda in a place that didn't end in jpg

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Originally posted by wotyzoid 1. Italian 2. Japanese 3. German 4. British 5. American That's an ordered, car shopping, priorities list. You're welcome.

Brazilianly speaking, this is actually a good list for both upmarket vehicles and starter cars (I'm only buying a new car because my 1994 Uno was stolen, so I agree with Italian taking the top spot). The problem is that I'm squeezed in between both categories because I want something sturdy and comfortable, so it can withstand the test of time (and the occasional potholes ), but I can't afford a much better car because they're way more expensive here... So I didn't even consider British cars in spite of my love for Minis.

From what I could gather, the Versa is U$ 11k in the US, but U$ 23k here. So, yeah, there's that.

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Originally posted by Mmanu Out of that list I'd say honda. Nissan is pretty much renault in japs clothing, expensive to maintain, I have experience of poor reliability. Citroen is pretty much hit or miss. I had a very good modified saxo VTR (sports hatch) with no problems for years and many miles, but there are still a few citroen lemons out there. On the plus side it's always cheap and easy to fix.

Hmm... it's the last bit that I found troubling. Here in Brazil maintenance is actually quite expensive for French cars.

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Originally posted by Trance-M German TUV report often give a nice indication regarding reliability as they categorize it over years. Especially when cars get old you can see all the Japanese types appear at the top of the list. TUeV_Report_2017.pdf Also found this: http://www.anusedcar.com/ Mazda, but also Mitsubishi are on the same level as Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Mazda maybe even at the top of those. Not much left of that moon travel advantage I think

Haha, good point! And thanks for the links!

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Originally posted by Trance-M I'm not sure about Chevrolet. Over here they mainly are Korean and not very good. But since General Motors also owns Opel/Vauxhall they could use Opel's technology, which is good.

All the cars I mentioned are made locally. If I recall correctly, both the Hondas and the Chevrolet are made in São Paulo.

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Originally posted by Trance-M At this moment PSA (Peugeot and Citroën) is taking over Opel/Vauxhall from GM by the way. Depending how long you want to drive it, it would be good to have a look at secondhand prices as well for those brands. Cheap parts and availability is also important, expect if you don't need new parts

We have looked at secondhand cars (there's no way we afford a new Honda), but we're still a bit cautious because it's our first car, and we intend to keep it for a decade or so... I'm not sure a used car would last as long as a new one in this sense. Would it?

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Originally posted by Trance-M To be honest in the model range you are looking at I think there won't be a lot of difference and expect competition to be close to each other. They don't have all the fancy stuff that's expensive to replace when broken. Probably you also need a bit of luck. I do expect some Adidas striping at yours though

Haha, there'll definitely be three stripes if I can get away with it

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Look at the link I posted, Fiat's really aren't that reliable, often related to electronics.
Same for Alfa, although they have stunning looks, great sound and are always sporty.
Fiat parts however are very cheap, so that's a plus for Fiat.
They for sure can't compete with Honda and Toyota.

A modern Mini has BMW's hands all over it.
They are very good, although there have been some motor (chain) problems with the turbo engines in the past. Peugeot and Citroen too, the THP engines are the same ones. VW also had similar problems with their TSI engines.
But that's no problem for Brazil as they still use larger engines as far as I could see. No downsizing yet.

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Originally posted by Lira We have looked at secondhand cars (there's no way we afford a new Honda), but we're still a bit cautious because it's our first car, and we intend to keep it for a decade or so... I'm not sure a used car would last as long as a new one in this sense. Would it?

No, I meant if they keep value or already lost half of it when leaving the showroom

I only buy second hand cars and than the stats in general show the best are Honda and Toyota. Holland is about the most expensive country to buy and drive a car. US is awesome for car owners.
But also some other brands have types that do very well like the list shows. And than I'm not talking about Mercs or Porsches of course, but affordable cars.

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Originally posted by Lira The problem is that I'm squeezed in between both categories because I want something sturdy and comfortable, so it can withstand the test of time (and the occasional potholes ), but I can't afford a much better car because they're way more expensive here... So I didn't even consider British cars in spite of my love for Minis.

Fiat isn't making anything rivaling those two down there?

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Originally posted by Trance-M No, I meant if they keep value or already lost half of it when leaving the showroom I only buy second hand cars and than the stats in general show the best are Honda and Toyota. Holland is about the most expensive country to buy and drive a car. US is awesome for car owners. But also some other brands have types that do very well like the list shows. And than I'm not talking about Mercs or Porsches of course, but affordable cars.

You do? I guess secondhand cars are much more common than I think, it's just that I'm still a bit cautious because I've never bought secondhand anything, so it's uncharted territory for me.

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Originally posted by wotyzoid Fiat isn't making anything rivaling those two down there?

It is. Fiat Linea, but it's supposed to be all clunky. Read lots of complaints by owners

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Yeah, that's a shame.

Edit: and I'm with trance on that, depending on the car getting used is better than buying new.

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Lira I wish you would buy a Vespa instead. Cars are passé.

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Originally posted by Jon_Snow Lira I wish you would buy a Vespa instead. Cars are passé.

I'm way too Italian already the way I am

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Originally posted by Lira Unfortunately not. I don't think I've ever seen a Mazda in a place that didn't end in jpg

Damn, ok. Toyota? The Corolla is a super reliable car, and I think it's the size you're looking at. I would recommend going with a hatch, rather than a sedan. Just for usefullness, which I'm aware isn't a real word, but you can fit so much more in a hatch than a sedan, with the smaller cars. I've been there

I would definitely look into second hand cars though, Trance-M is right. If you buy new, you basically lose a lot of value on your new car, the second you drive it out of the car yard/show room/whatever.

Second hand -- Yes, it can be risky. Have a mechanic check it out before you buy. Your mechanic, not their mechanic. We have mobile mechanics here, which helps, but they cost a bit. You'll still save money, IMO.

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