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Originally posted by Trance-M That must have been really old newspapers. Think the last Dutch newspaper in French was like 1892 or something. Tomorrow 32 degrees over here...pfff

It was an issue from 1751.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN It's weird though how interchangeable those languages are; my other half is Swiss and they used to get dutch radio when she grew up and after about 10 mins, could understand everything. Then a dutch mate came over the other week, I was speaking Swiss German to my missus in front of him and he suddenly "got it". Afrikaans just sounds like scouser Dutch

Yeah, my partner is Danish and she can understand my family talking in Dutch for the most part.

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Originally posted by Lira Actually, it is English that is the damn outlier here The Germanic languages haven't split that long ago, and there are quite a few words that are still pretty uniform across all languages (such as "hand", with the occasional vowel shift). If you measure the lexical differences among European languages, you'll see English hanging on its own, far from both the languages from Western Europe and the Scandinavian ones (with Danish being a bridge in more than just one way).

Fascinating chart, there. Though it seems to show Danish and Norwegian being closer than Danish and Swedish, which is interesting since I know they can all read each other's stuff but my Danish friends say it is easier to verbally converse with the Swedes than Norwegians. Something about the accents, rather than the actual words.

English does have a load of French influence, though, right, explaining why it is further away? I wish the chart had some of the Low Franconian languages, too.

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Originally posted by Lira I guess he may have underestimated how much ít takes to go from basic Afrikaans to vloeiend Nederlands, although I can see why it made sense. Don't you feel like learning Dutch though? If you're studying German, and English is your native language, it'll feel like "German lite"... although it's just a matter of time until you start mixing it up with German and Danish

I don't think he thought it would be easy, it was just what he wanted

I definitely would love to learn Dutch; I would have taken it in high school if it was offered, although I am happy I took German. In an ideal world, I would be fluent in English, German, Dutch, Danish, and French. I think that's a bit much for the real world, though. I just don't have the time to study one language properly, let alone four! Already confusing German and Danish

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Originally posted by Lira (I had no idea the Dutch wrote newspapers in French. I know it's writing in English to a foreign audience when French was the international language du jour, but still)

Yeah, this newspaper was basically the Financial Times or maybe even the New York Times of the 18th century, written in French both because that was the language de rigueur and because it was founded by Huguenots fleeing France slightly before the Edict of Nantes. Huguenots actually founded maybe two dozen French newspapers outside of France at the time, especially in the Dutch Republic, which had such tolerance of freedom of speech.

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Originally posted by Lews Fascinating chart, there. Though it seems to show Danish and Norwegian being closer than Danish and Swedish, which is interesting since I know they can all read each other's stuff but my Danish friends say it is easier to verbally converse with the Swedes than Norwegians. Something about the accents, rather than the actual words.

It's probably easier for Copenhageners to converse with people from Malmö (and Skåne in general) because of their proximity (The Skåne (Scania) dialect is considered by some linguists to be an East Danish dialect group). I guess they have a similar way of pronouncing in that area. Go further north, and I don't think they'll understand each other that well anymore.

Not knowing too much about it, I'd still venture a guess that Norwegian is closer to Danish than Swedish is because of Denmark-Norway and Denmark's relatively recent influence on Norway.



Even after hearing Danish many times a week for the past year, I have to say I still understand heard Swedish and Norwegian slightly better than heard Danish, men det er ikke min skyld. My attempts at Danish, while understood by my girlfriend's family to an extent, is usually met by laughter.

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Originally posted by Lira I wonder if Trance-M concurs

I fully do . It sounds familiar and one can recognize many words, but that's about it, just like Fries (Frisian, a language in the north of our country).


I think it's much better to be able to talk and understand German than Dutch.

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I want some fries.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I want some fries.

French or Freedom?

It's all good.

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The Charlatan [Morphosis]

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Originally posted by Lira Actually, it is English that is the damn outlier here The Germanic languages haven't split that long ago, and there are quite a few words that are still pretty uniform across all languages (such as "hand", with the occasional vowel shift). If you measure the lexical differences among European languages, you'll see English hanging on its own, far from both the languages from Western Europe and the Scandinavian ones (with Danish being a bridge in more than just one way).

Great chart, but it's weird to me that it's so far out. I get it that the language has been very different for a long time, but given the influence and still remaining words from these other languages, I would have thought is less far removed.

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Originally posted by Lira As a native speaker of Portuguese, though I feel English is to Germanic languages what French is to its closest relatives. Can I read French? Yup, no problem. Can I understand a French speaker?

But french is like that. In terms of writing, you can get it (unless you're English and the whole objects having gender thing will always baffle you for life), but speaking is a completely different thing. I can understand and write a fair bit of french, but if I speak, and the accent is off, ever so slightly, they'll look at me like I just rbought their parentage in to question, like I just said something completely and utterly unintelligible, but just change the *slightest* twang and suddenly I'm understood. In English, if you pronounce something completely cack handedly, we'll basically guess what you're saying, but french? They look at you like you you added the word cvnt in the sentence.

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Originally posted by Lira Now that's a whole different ballgame, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out Cristiano Ronaldo can shout something in his native language to Paul Pogba during a game and make himself understood, but I suspect it doesn't go both ways.

You mean:
[Ronaldo] Evasão fiscal!
[Pogba]: Oui!
[mourinho]: sem comentários

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Originally posted by LEWS Yeah, my partner is Danish and she can understand my family talking in Dutch for the most part.

Can you understand her? Does it go both ways with Dutch/Danish?

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Originally posted by LEWS English does have a load of French influence, though, right, explaining why it is further away?

Yep, if you think about it, a huge number of words with more than 3 or 4 syllables are french. Transportation. Situation. Accident. Amourous. Personnel. Commencement. etc etc. Kind of funny given the difference between the two countries and that it's estimated that up to 70% of the current English diction have some kind of french origin or influence.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Can you understand her? Does it go both ways with Dutch/Danish?

I don't think it's that easy to understand in both directions, but it won't take very long to get to a level that you know what somebody is talking about. That does go both ways I think, same for Swedish.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Yep, if you think about it, a huge number of words with more than 3 or 4 syllables are french. Transportation. Situation. Accident. Amourous. Personnel. Commencement. etc etc. Kind of funny given the difference between the two countries and that it's estimated that up to 70% of the current English diction have some kind of french origin or influence.

Also funny that some French words came from Middle Dutch, like mannequin (mannekijn= en: little man, doll) and boulevard (bolwerk= en: defense construction) which in French became the words for model and wide road, and then were taken back into the Dutch language again using the French words and meaning.

Also in English a trawler, fishing ship probably came from the Middle Dutch word for dragging: traghelen. Nowadays the English word trawler is used in Dutch language.

We have about 28000 loanwords from 28 languages.

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Originally posted by JEO It's probably easier for Copenhageners to converse with people from Malmö (and Skåne in general) because of their proximity (The Skåne (Scania) dialect is considered by some linguists to be an East Danish dialect group). I guess they have a similar way of pronouncing in that area. Go further north, and I don't think they'll understand each other that well anymore. Not knowing too much about it, I'd still venture a guess that Norwegian is closer to Danish than Swedish is because of Denmark-Norway and Denmark's relatively recent influence on Norway. Even after hearing Danish many times a week for the past year, I have to say I still understand heard Swedish and Norwegian slightly better than heard Danish, men det er ikke min skyld. My attempts at Danish, while understood by my girlfriend's family to an extent, is usually met by laughter.

That video is wonderful

I'm not sure I've ever said anything in Danish that hasn't been met by laughter by my partner's family. When I try to speak to Danish friends, they just look confused and then ask me to repeat in either English or German. The pronunciation of Danish is very difficult for me, especially when I still want to say pronounce everything in a German fashion. Like probably most people with foreign languages, reading it is much easier.

I've just noticed Danish friends from Copenhagen talking with Swedes from Malmö, Göteborg, and Stockholm quite easily. Not sure I know any Swedes from anywhere else.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Can you understand her? Does it go both ways with Dutch/Danish?

I don't speak Dutch, unfortunately, just English and some German. I can understand a decent amount of what she says, but I have an easier time understanding what she writes (which is the same with German and French for me).

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Yep, if you think about it, a huge number of words with more than 3 or 4 syllables are french. Transportation. Situation. Accident. Amourous. Personnel. Commencement. etc etc. Kind of funny given the difference between the two countries and that it's estimated that up to 70% of the current English diction have some kind of french origin or influence.

Not too surprising, what with William the Conqueror and his Norman friends speaking a dialect of French and imposing it on courtly events, both administrative and cultural. From what I understand, it wasn't really until the Napoleonic Wars (or slightly before) that French stopped being the standard language of the British upper classes, as it was seen as too foreign, too flowery, and too womanly.