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Originally posted by Lira It's called stealthing, and it depends on the legislation of the state you live in, I guess. It is a crime in Wisconsin, New York, and California. And, yeah, it's a "trend", apparently, and one that has been described as sexual assault quite frequently.

I had only paraphrased her statement to our group, she actually mentioned that Dave "stealthed" her. It was a term I had never heard before and after seeing your post, I followed up with these bills that Wisconsin, California, and New York legislators introduced and was unable to find any proof that they had been signed into law. So technically it is not a sex crime (yet) in those states. I definitely think stealthing should be labeled as sexual assault, if not explicitly a sex crime. Perhaps the punishment of being labeled a sex offender for the rest of one's life is borderline harsh for an act like stealthing, but there is certainly a case to be made for it.

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The main question is... Does he want to improve his life? He could just want to get rid of this problem (even if he genuinely regrets it) and keep partying. I'd think of Dave as a friend who's dealing with a DUI. Some people use the opportunity to take a long hard look at themselves and sort it out. Some others, however, may blame the circumstances, only to make a similar mistake again and again. I've seen drunk drivers nearly lose their lives and vow never to touch a beer again, only to make the same mistakes down the road.

I can only hope that he actually takes my concerns seriously, and not just repeatedly say "I know, I know" as we go over his screw ups and things he can do to improve, again like I'm his dad or something. I'm worried that he's not going to view his last year as an anomaly, or at the very least a significant departure from his previous self. Just that he screwed up and stealthed a chick. I am also concerned that he is going to blame the alcohol and make an excuse that because he was drunk, he didn't consider the repercussions. To me, if that isn't enough to re-evaluate yourself, you are no friend of mine.

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If he realises he "stepped on the ball", as we say in Portuguese, and he needs to get his act together, I'd recommend telling him he needs professional help. That's what they're for. You sound like a great friend, Nick, and you can be there for him, but you can only do so much. You can't deal with his demons on your own, and there's always the possibility he'll turn against you if you try to help him out.

I will certainly recommend professional help if he can't come to terms with his mistakes. If he chooses not to take it, that is a choice he will have to make.

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If, however, he thinks it's a one off, and it won't happen again even if he doesn't change his lifestyle, what can you do? That's the path he chose when he ditched Karen, and I'm afraid there would be nothing for you to do other than hope for the best.

That is what I'm most afraid of, him just brushing it off as a mistake he made while he was drunk and continuing to live his life the way he has been. Hopefully he surprises me with some well thought out steps to take towards a more productive future.

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I think it's also important to evaluate where you really stand with this guy and; therefore, how you're prepared to support him, if at all. It's totally fair to ask him specifically how you can help him, if that's something he wants.

It's not cool to go to someone and tell them you're concerned, but then be like "But I can't actually help you." Words aren't gonna do shit to help him; he will need lots more than that from the people around him.

Be real with yourself and ask yourself if that's something you can give right now - you're about to start a family and that's gonna sap all of your mental and emotional resources, your time and energy. So be careful about this.

Yeah you're right. But if anything, me coming to him and saying "hey man I'm concerned about you, I think you need to re-evaluate what you are doing, get some help" is better than me not doing anything at all. I certainly won't have time to hold his hand and make sure he doesn't go around to parties stealthing other women, but anything is better than nothing.

Again, if he rejects my calls for introspection and possible professional help, then I've got no time for him, or a place for him in my life, and I will likely discard him as a friend.

Edit: it's also worth mentioning, that even if I can't be around for him in person most of the time since I will be taking care of a newborn and a postpartum wife, having him know that I've got his back is reasonably uplifting. I think if he lost me, it would be a disaster for his psyche and he could spiral even deeper. He can't snap his fingers and I'll be there, not anymore, but I can always try to carve out some time to have a beer with him and talk things over. Having a friend like that is pretty priceless.

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Last edited by ziptnf on Feb-08-2018 at 15:21

Yeah, well that's exactly it. As long as you can say to him "I can be here for you in this way, but not that way" I think that is totally reasonable. Sort of like having a bottom line with addicts.

Agreed it's better than not doing anything at all. Hopefully he gets control of the reigns again.

These kind of threads always die early because we are all too goddamn reasonable and we end up agreeing with each other. Fuck you guys, I'm getting a divorce and me and Dave are going on a stealthing rampage across the continental US!

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Your friend is a cunt and so are you!!!

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Originally posted by ziptnf Again, if he rejects my calls for introspection and possible professional help, then I've got no time for him, or a place for him in my life, and I will likely discard him as a friend.

In my experience, this wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I once mentioned that I've only discarded two friends in life, and one of them was going down a similar self-destruction route and getting into all sorts of problems (from trying to write his doctoral thesis in a week, failing, and thinking the professors singled him out because his wasn't the worst thesis he had seen; to saying he didn't punch his sister in a family altercation because he only "shoved her with his closed fist"). I spent two to three years trying to talk him out of it, but there was a point he'd get so pissed off if I couldn't hang out with him because I had job interviews that he showed up at my door unannounced trying to take me to a rock concert because "friends matter more than jobs".

Last I heard from him, he had tried to emigrate to Canada illegally and had to come back once he realised you couldn't enrol at York University like you order a burger or something

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Originally posted by ziptnf I'm getting a divorce and me and Dave are going on a stealthing rampage across the continental US!

What a dick move, what do you have against Hawaiians!? Racism, that's what this is!

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Last edited by Lira on Feb-08-2018 at 18:41

Dave made a week-long stop in Hawaii during his trip out of the country, so I'm sure he's stealthed some Hawaiian bitches already

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Good. Next up, I hope there are no more American Virgin Islands!

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What did he say? Did you give up on him? How do you like your mozzarella sticks?

We're curious here!

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Last edited by on Feb-10-2018 at 06:51