its been said before but america is different. People outside of america can be told part of the truth because they cant change things, if enough american people got together after being told the hard unpleasant truth that their leaders are utter criminals could change things. Its happened before, ordinary people can make a difference, course if you were in the USA ruling elite you cant allow that to happen.

I would hope that if average americans really knew how its governments policies and those of its corporations affect the world they would do something to stop it. The training of death squads, the assassinations, the CIA backed coups, the indiscriminate bombing of countries that havent done anything to the USA, the sanctions regimes against countries like Iraq and Cuba. I could go on for page after page but whats the point.

The americans need to be kept in the dark, surely anyone that knew that their president cheated to win the 2000 election would never vote for him. Im sure that the average foreigner knows far more about the workings of america than the average american does.

Sadly I know exactly what sort of hateful people run america, I only need to turn on Fox News. "We report, you obey"

quote:

Originally posted by Terpsichore Have to agree with you. I lived in the US for one year and the Internet is the only way to find some news about other countries. They just don't care. It is also that Americans are very bad at geography so they can't locate most countries on the globe (< no joke).

that last part is very stereotypical, most anyone who is somewaht educated can find most places on the globe.

Also, there is very little foreign coverage of news, unless it deals with the USA directly. How it is like in other countries, how is foreign news up in canada. Down here, i dont really care that there is not that much foreign news, i dont want much tv anyways, i would usually just look it up on the internet, its not that hard to do, although i think for some americans, they are too lazy

quote:

SO GO READ YOUR LOCAL NEWS!!! I don't understand why people complain so much about cnn and american news in general. YES it does have an American focus because it is an AMERICAN news channel. Who's going to most likely watch it??? AMERICANS! So of course these news channels are going to have a geographical bias. Although we don't have a lot of news from Europe we have a lot from South America because of geography. Are you saying that your local news channels are unbiased in covering stories from across the entire WORLD??? A) Are you watching the right news shows??? American news has a local news show FOLLOWED by a worldwide news show. B) Time how much news coverage your show has within a 5000 mile radius and time how much time is spent outside of that radius. News in general is going to be geographically biased to appeal to the population. They need to make money same as any other tv network.

From what you can see, americans are complaining about it as well. If my country had news like those, I'd be complaining as well. In fact, there are many things I don't like here, but I doubt any of you would be interested about it. America is biggest, and therefore draws attention of people.

quote:

that last part is very stereotypical, most anyone who is somewaht educated can find most places on the globe.

www.nationalgeographic.com
13% of people 18-24 from the US know where Iraq is.
12% know where Afghanistan is.
Even less know where sweden is.
A test is basically a world map without country names, and you have to find a country on it.

___________________
1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 From what you can see, americans are complaining about it as well. If my country had news like those, I'd be complaining as well. In fact, there are many things I don't like here, but I doubt any of you would be interested about it. America is biggest, and therefore draws attention of people. www.nationalgeographic.com 13% of people 18-24 from the US know where Iraq is. 12% know where Afghanistan is. Even less know where sweden is. A test is basically a world map without country names, and you have to find a country on it.

People who complain about it are simply lazy. If you don't like what's presented to you on tv there are a million other sources that you can use. Don't expect me to boohoo over an American complaining about news when there are a ton of countries that censor information to keep their population ignorant. So what if the people in our country tends to focus more so on internal matters than other countries? Maybe that's the reason why the US is so productive ... we scrutinize our own practices and way of living so much and try to improve efficiency as much as possible that it results in societal improvements. Who has the right to critisize us and say that we're "too" focused on what goes on in our country?

And with regards to the national geographic poll ... yes it is rather pathetic. But keep in mind that it seemed that every country was pretty much pathetic. Everybody focused on America's ineptitude but failed to notice that the UK and Canada had equal to or less than 50% of the questions right as well. I'll admit that Americans in general have weak geography with regards to the middle east and asia but keep in mind that at the time we were educated, the 80's these regions were of limited significance to the US and thus were not teached as thoroughly. For those of you who live in Europe, can you correctly label on a map all the countries of africa??? If not ... they are continental neighbors so can I call you ignorant for not knowing the geography of Africa? When I grew up, roughly at the time of the cold war, our geography concerned North America and Europe. That's 50 states, 50 capitals, South America, and all the countries and capitals in Europe. So of course there's going to be less focus on areas that are recentely gaining worldwide attention. I like how people in the US could identify on average 3 european countries whereas other European countries could only identify 5. Critisize Americans as much as you want but that statistic isn't much to preach about either. Using this as criticism is like making fun of the winner of the darwin award when you're the runner up.

Finally I would just like to state that the 18-24 age bracket of the United States is indeed a very very very dumb age bracket. I imagine that you will find that to be common throughout most countries.

quote:

Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior How fucked up is it that I have to go on ANOTHER country's website to get news about my country?

Because the American media is to censored. You wouldnt believe how much stuff about America is in other country's new's, Sometimes about 2-3 weeks before you even hear about it. The (american) media likes to twist and wind things around as a form of propaganda, Example, After Sept. 11th they basically gave impressions to hate middle eastern countries.

quote:

People who complain about it are simply lazy. If you don't like what's presented to you on tv there are a million other sources that you can use. Don't expect me to boohoo over an American complaining about news when there are a ton of countries that censor information to keep their population ignorant. So what if the people in our country tends to focus more so on internal matters than other countries? Maybe that's the reason why the US is so productive ... we scrutinize our own practices and way of living so much and try to improve efficiency as much as possible that it results in societal improvements. Who has the right to critisize us and say that we're "too" focused on what goes on in our country?

I'm not saying that the US has the worst media in the world, but just that their media quality should improve. Yes, many other countries have biased media, many have more than the US, and that's not right either. Anyway, the problem is that all of US media is inward looking. There should be inward-looking and outward-looking media, so that people can choose which one they want to watch more.
Now, about productiveness of the US...
Most of your industries are now not in the US anymore.
Most of the US jobs are commercial services, not production.
You are productive because you control productivity of other nations. It is true that you were productive earlier, but as of late, I think that your productivity is falling.
Anyway, a downside to being so inward looking is that you don't know anything about the rest of the world, and when someone in the world gets pissed off by someone else or you, you don't know why it happened.
Finally, your societal improvements are not quite so exemplary. You have a bad health care system and many poor people.

quote:

And with regards to the national geographic poll ... yes it is rather pathetic. But keep in mind that it seemed that every country was pretty much pathetic. Everybody focused on America's ineptitude but failed to notice that the UK and Canada had equal to or less than 50% of the questions right as well. I'll admit that Americans in general have weak geography with regards to the middle east and asia but keep in mind that at the time we were educated, the 80's these regions were of limited significance to the US and thus were not teached as thoroughly. For those of you who live in Europe, can you correctly label on a map all the countries of africa??? If not ... they are continental neighbors so can I call you ignorant for not knowing the geography of Africa? When I grew up, roughly at the time of the cold war, our geography concerned North America and Europe. That's 50 states, 50 capitals, South America, and all the countries and capitals in Europe. So of course there's going to be less focus on areas that are recentely gaining worldwide attention. I like how people in the US could identify on average 3 european countries whereas other European countries could only identify 5. Critisize Americans as much as you want but that statistic isn't much to preach about either. Using this as criticism is like making fun of the winner of the darwin award when you're the runner up.

I didn't say that other countries excelled in their geographical knowledge, but US and Mexico were by far the worst.
No, I cannot name all the countries from Africa on a map, but I believe I can map more than 50% of them. Now, Africa and Europe have about 50 countries each, while NA has 3, CA has about 10 and SA has also about 10.
I can name all the NA countries, almost all of SA and CA, almost every one in Asia, all the european ones, and most african ones.

Anyway, so what if it's not your primary interest right now? You should nevertheless know it. And I doubt in what you said that an average european can identify only 5 european countries. I think that's totally wrong. Care to give me some proof on that?

quote:

Finally I would just like to state that the 18-24 age bracket of the United States is indeed a very very very dumb age bracket. I imagine that you will find that to be common throughout most countries.

Is that a dumb age bracket? It's people who are going to be the basis of the countries production 10 years from now. And it was the same age bracket for all countries, not just the US.
I agree that if the age bracket would be widened, that americans would get better scores, but that's only because the US education was better before than it is now.

Finally, here's a joke I've seen while I was in the US about your education system.

Here is how an elementary school math test question varies through the years in the US.

1960s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. How many are left?

1970s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. How many are left? Put a circle around the correct answer.
a)65
b)23
c)85
d)54

1980s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. How many are left? put a circle around answer a)
a)65
b)23
c)85
d)54

1990s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. Write an essay about your opinion how that affects the squirrels from that forest.

___________________
1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Thats the PRice Americans have blindfully paid as propaganda is the focus of presentation in US media.

Please, stop with the propaganda. Its not propaganda. There is no government agency that says, show only this news or else.

It is simply maket-based television. Call it Capitalganda

is that any better?

___________________

Visit my site Antiwar Homepage

Every news has its ups and downs (Fox News Channel hopelessly conservative, ABC News a bit liberal, CNN more or less in the happy middle, MSNBC just confused) you just have to know what you're watching and take it with a grain of salt.

As for any sort of government control on the media I guess there is some truth to that (no one would necessarily be open subversive) but for the most part, there are a large number of different media outlets to get your news from (even as far as the Onion and the Daily Show which are far from government friendly) all of which have different attitudes and philosophies so it really boils down to who you are and what you want to hear.

And that's the way it should be.

Well...

To get on topic I suppose it's just that very little foreign news (except for something like the Venezulean oil strikes which has a direct bearing on American affairs) has really any relevance towards America, mostly because America is the only country which really gets in everyone's grill (perks of being the last "superpower" I suppose) thus American political decisions would mean much more to an Swede than Swedish political decisions affect the typical American.

I personally enjoy foreign news but I suppose like my musical tastes I am in the far minority in this nation.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Please, stop with the propaganda. Its not propaganda. There is no government agency that says, show only this news or else. It is simply maket-based television. Call it Capitalganda

The manipulation of public thought or opinion, whatever you want to call it, is substantially rooted in politics and it occurs today. Just read the Creel Commission documents put out by Woodrow Wilson, or Walter Lippmann's concept of a "spectator democracy" (it's usually subtitled something like "A Progressive Theory of Liberal Democratic Thought"). If you're still not convinced then just buy a copy of your local newspaper and go throught it carefully. When you're done with the local paper, check out The Guardian(
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/), a U.K. newspaper, and go through it comparing the differences in how political news stories were presented, what points of view where omitted from the local paper, what facts were omitted, etc.

___________________
sig edited: no political imagery allowed. please reref to the sig guidelines

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I'm not saying that the US has the worst media in the world, but just that their media quality should improve. Yes, many other countries have biased media, many have more than the US, and that's not right either. Anyway, the problem is that all of US media is inward looking. There should be inward-looking and outward-looking media, so that people can choose which one they want to watch more.

No not all the US media is inward looking. People do have the choice to watch shows that have a more worldwide focus. The fact is most people are simply more concerned about internal affairs. As a society we're more concerned about our own country's happenings. But it's not like we are prevented from learning other news. Would you rather the government and the media force news on us that we don't necessarily want to watch?

quote:

Now, about productiveness of the US... Most of your industries are now not in the US anymore. Most of the US jobs are commercial services, not production. You are productive because you control productivity of other nations. It is true that you were productive earlier, but as of late, I think that your productivity is falling.

I don't know what your definition of productivity is but I'm going to use a hard statistic ... GDP. And though it may not be as great as it was in the past, it has been steadily increasing. It most certainly isn't as bad as the recessions of the 70's and 80's.

quote:

Anyway, a downside to being so inward looking is that you don't know anything about the rest of the world, and when someone in the world gets pissed off by someone else or you, you don't know why it happened. Finally, your societal improvements are not quite so exemplary. You have a bad health care system and many poor people.

Yes I think it's bad to be inward looking and for that reason I try to be learned in world events. I'm still not going to force my opinions on others and force them to watch news with more foreign coverage. And you're critisizing my country's health care and wealth??? Wow, I was never aware that Croatia was a leading example of healthcare and wealth that the world should model. I was under the impression that just a few years ago you were struggling with the concept of genocide.

quote:

I didn't say that other countries excelled in their geographical knowledge, but US and Mexico were by far the worst. No, I cannot name all the countries from Africa on a map, but I believe I can map more than 50% of them. Now, Africa and Europe have about 50 countries each, while NA has 3, CA has about 10 and SA has also about 10. I can name all the NA countries, almost all of SA and CA, almost every one in Asia, all the european ones, and most african ones. Anyway, so what if it's not your primary interest right now? You should nevertheless know it. And I doubt in what you said that an average european can identify only 5 european countries. I think that's totally wrong. Care to give me some proof on that?

Care to give me some proof that the US and Mexico were BY FAR the worst? Yes they were the bottom two countries but it didn't state in the article ( I don't think so) the exact results of every country. Nowhere did it state the US performed horrendously compared to Britain or Canada. And I'm proud of your abilities in geography, but not to be outdone I would say my abilities in geography are excellent as well. But we're not talking about you or I. Most people on this forum are going to be fairly intelligent. We're talking about the average citizen who's likely not going to be the brightest bulb in the box. With regards to the proof you asked for, I was mistaken. The survey stated that outside of the US, on average people can only identify 5 European countries.

quote:

Is that a dumb age bracket? It's people who are going to be the basis of the countries production 10 years from now. And it was the same age bracket for all countries, not just the US. I agree that if the age bracket would be widened, that americans would get better scores, but that's only because the US education was better before than it is now.

Yes it is an especially dumb age bracket. By now Darwin hasn't had enough time to fully weed out all the idiots. And those that survive from a bad case of the stupids over the years have likely gotten wiser.

quote:

Finally, here's a joke I've seen while I was in the US about your education system. Here is how an elementary school math test question varies through the years in the US. 1960s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. How many are left? 1970s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. How many are left? Put a circle around the correct answer. a)65 b)23 c)85 d)54 1980s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. How many are left? put a circle around answer a) a)65 b)23 c)85 d)54 1990s: There is a forest with 100 trees. A lumberjack chops down 35 of them. Write an essay about your opinion how that affects the squirrels from that forest.

Whoever told you this joke isn't a very good comedian.