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Originally posted by Yoepus By the fact that you say Israelis have killed palestinians citizens you are acknowledging the war, right? After all, citizens will die in war, you do know this too right? Its just how things are, sadly.

if citizens get killed in war (and that is just how things are), then why is everyone arguing about innocent israeli citizens being killed? according to you, that is just part of this whole war/problem, isnt it?

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Originally posted by Yoepus Furthermore, Israel has not assasinated a single head of state, or attempted ever to do such (as far as we know). Israel has, 'assasinated' known terrorist, and even high level terrorist. On the other hand, it is quiet well established that Arafat's own organization the PLO and its offshots were responsible for many assasination attempts, such as those on the Jordianin king.

if that was true, Arafat and his organisations would be on the list of known terrorists, and they aren't.
On the assassination matter, Tony Blair made a statement on BBC news a few weeks ago saying that it would be illegal to assassinate Saddam Hussein due to UN and Nato law, so I assume if it's illegal to assassinate Hussein, it's illegal assassinate Arafat
I believe assassination was what melech mike meant when he made this retarded statement

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if we are able to eliminate the senior levels of command in the PA and wipe out the terror groups in the region (and sooner or later abroad as well), than we can push the government to reform. A lot of lives will be saved down the road!!

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Originally posted by liquidxxd if citizens get killed in war (and that is just how things are), then why is everyone arguing about innocent israeli citizens being killed? according to you, that is just part of this whole war/problem, isnt it?

Yes, but I stated this was a precursor to war.
Furthermore, I think you are intelligent enough to understand the difference when civilians are directly targeted, and when they suffer casualties due to indirect fire in war.

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Originally posted by Yoepus Yes, but I stated this was a precursor to war. Furthermore, I think you are intelligent enough to understand the difference when civilians are directly targeted, and when they suffer casualties due to indirect fire in war.

I'm not sure, are the israeli soldiers? cos it always seems to me you manage to get one suspected terrorist, and 8 other people who are completely innocent!

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Originally posted by Az you can't make an ommelette without breaking a few eggs eh?

Indeed. Everything we have accomplished as a species is based on this principle. Without the sacrifices of our ancestors, we would have nothing, and when we are no longer willing to sacrifice for future generations, it will signal the end of our reign of supremacy as a species.

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Originally posted by Az if that was true, Arafat and his organisations would be on the list of known terrorists, and they aren't. On the assassination matter, Tony Blair made a statement on BBC news a few weeks ago saying that it would be illegal to assassinate Saddam Hussein due to UN and Nato law, so I assume if it's illegal to assassinate Hussein, it's illegal assassinate Arafat I believe assassination was what melech mike meant when he made this retarded statement

First, this umbrella orgaqnization linked to Arafat is believed to be broken up (thanks in great part due to Israeli 'assasinations' of its leaders) and exist no longer. Still, Arafat was an overseer of this organization at the time.
Here though, Arafat indirectly linked to assasination:

Just a quick search brought this up:
"And the 28 Nov. 1971 assasination of the Jordanian Prime Minister,"
Black September, a PLO offshot, was responsible for this. http://nyc.indymedia.org/ front.php...5&group=webcast (very hippie source btw)

Furthemore, it is know that Arafat had attempted to make a coup on King Hussien of Jordan's life, in 1971.

As for Saddam Hussien, it is a known fact (Clinton government first annouced it) that he had made an assination attempt on GWB Senior, on a planned visit to Kuwait (I believe it was 96, but can't recall).

Furthermore a quick search on both the NATO and UN found no matches in the context you mentioned (www.nato.int and www.un.int).

Perhaps though, you might be able to provide me a transcript of Blair's speech. I made a search of bbc.co.uk for "tony blair assasination" and could not find any mention of what you might have been refering to.
I therefore still hold that it is NOT illegal to assasinate leaders of nations, even though many nations through self restraint and other consequences chose not to take such action. (Such as why the Israel does not chose to kill Arafat).

But please, please do feel free to prove me otherwise. Until then, I, and I believe all others with a proper head on their shoulders, should not assume that assasinations of heads of state are illegal, just because you think they should be.

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Originally posted by Az unfortuneately the palestinian authorities have no means of controlling the populace, due to fact the palestinian police force having no power whatsoever, or being attacked by Israeli gunships. How can you exert control with no power, you can't. Personally I think negotiations are a complete waste of time whilst Mr Ariel "I want to be just like Adolf" Sharon is part of the Israeli political setup. And it's a crying shame, because this conflict is definately one of the main reasons this world is such a fucked up place to be living in.

first, the fact that you say what you said, and i think you know exectly what i mean, hearts my heart!!! you are a really shallow individual who has no grasp of the truth.

actually non of you can understand what happens here!
all you see is news!!!!!!!!!!!

news is bullshit!
they show stuff for rating!,

let me tell you a bit about the situation, and not from an israeli point of view, but from someone who lives in the middle east.

its like that,
Palestines want thier lands back, a perfectly legitimic demand.
but the problem is the way they want to take it,
terror is used on daily basis!
they got to the point that you cant really trust them
cause you don know if you give them what they want they will just continue terror and ask for more.
you never lived to see up close terror attacks.
they are the most vicious thing in the world.
a MAN!!m a Human being! is going to a Club!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
full of kids my age and younger!!!!!!!!!!!
and bomb himself in order to kill as much ppl as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how horrible is that!!!!!!!!!!

sure you can blame the israeli army, and i agree that there was at the past some truth in that.
but today, the surivell of israel is not so clear anymore.
the army must defend the country
israel will fall apart if these bombing go on.
and im sorry to say that the palastines dont get that nothing will come out of terror.
if there was no teror they had thier country long ago!

and dont forget that 6 years ago Barak wanted to give them 98% of the lands they wanted, Guess what!, Arafat didnt takr it, you know why?
becuase he is a dictator who will loose his power if his countryman started living a better life. who knows they might have wanted a democracy good forbid!!

think about it

___________________
The Ones who look for love Will not Find their seek let the love find you and take it easy! Build Your Empire

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Originally posted by ripcurl first, the fact that you say what you said, and i think you know exectly what i mean, hearts my heart!!! you are a really shallow individual who has no grasp of the truth. actually non of you can understand what happens here! all you see is news!!!!!!!!!!! news is bullshit! they show stuff for rating!, let me tell you a bit about the situation, and not from an israeli point of view, but from someone who lives in the middle east. its like that, Palestines want thier lands back, a perfectly legitimic demand. but the problem is the way they want to take it, terror is used on daily basis! they got to the point that you cant really trust them cause you don know if you give them what they want they will just continue terror and ask for more. you never lived to see up close terror attacks. they are the most vicious thing in the world. a MAN!!m a Human being! is going to a Club!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! full of kids my age and younger!!!!!!!!!!! and bomb himself in order to kill as much ppl as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!! how horrible is that!!!!!!!!!! sure you can blame the israeli army, and i agree that there was at the past some truth in that. but today, the surivell of israel is not so clear anymore. the army must defend the country israel will fall apart if these bombing go on. and im sorry to say that the palastines dont get that nothing will come out of terror. if there was no teror they had thier country long ago! and dont forget that 6 years ago Barak wanted to give them 98% of the lands they wanted, Guess what!, Arafat didnt takr it, you know why? becuase he is a dictator who will loose his power if his countryman started living a better life. who knows they might have wanted a democracy good forbid!! think about it

actually, I've based my opinion on the Israeli-palestine conflict, not only on the news (which is pro Israeli I may add), but on one of my former teachers, an Israeli, and the in depth conversations I had with him over a 2 year period. Fortuneately for me he was a little more clued up than you seem to be. Not once in any of my posts have I advocated suicide bombings, the reason why is because I don't. But then again neither do I advocate the 3 day bombings of refugee camps, or attacking police stations (if thats what you want to call them, palestinian police have NO power). And if it comes down to making a choice between the 2, the palestinians would win every time, simply because the amount of innocent palestinians killed since 1947 by the Israelis is far greater than the amount the palestinians have killed. And about that 98% of the land offer, strange I've never heard about it, strange my teachers never heard about it, strange it's never mentioned on the pro israeli news that I have to endure day in and day out. Is it perhaps something thats not quite true, and has been offered to the israeli people as a nice bit of spin?. 98% of land is great, but how many assurances were there that the israeli army wouldn't come and remove palestinians out of their homes after a few weeks?. Remember there are 2 sides to every argument, and as much as the plight of the israeli people is advertised on western TV, the more people in the west are waking up the fact the Israeli argument is wearing thinner and thinner. Remember the only reason the Israelis have got away with defying every UN order for Israeli action on palestinians to cease (do you get those announcements on your news? because we do) is because the Americans are on your side.
And thats sounds a little nasty and one sided, and I'm never going to get through to you, because you've been brought up the way you have, and pounded with anti palestinian propaganda, but I live in hope for the day Israelis and Palestinians can live together in peace, without religious fundamentalist nutcases blowing themselves up, and evil right wing extremists ordering the deaths of countless individuals.
but then again I'm stoned

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Originally posted by Yoepus Yes, but I stated this was a precursor to war. Furthermore, I think you are intelligent enough to understand the difference when civilians are directly targeted, and when they suffer casualties due to indirect fire in war.

so the israelis dont target civilians (as in all the palistinian civilians are killed by accident)? some bullshit. and yes i do understand teh different with civilians being targeted and indirect fire. how about the israelis going into palastine and demolishing homes? yea, you know they were sleeping inside, but we didnt mean to kill them, only to put them out on the streets and let them die

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Originally posted by liquidxxd so the israelis dont target civilians (as in all the palistinian civilians are killed by accident)? some bullshit. and yes i do understand teh different with civilians being targeted and indirect fire. how about the israelis going into palastine and demolishing homes? yea, you know they were sleeping inside, but we didnt mean to kill them, only to put them out on the streets and let them die

You also forgot to mention that these palestinians dont have electricity.. running water and food at times. And sometimes... the Israeli military wont let UN aid workers come in to hospitalize these poor....

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Originally posted by liquidxxd so the israelis dont target civilians (as in all the palistinian civilians are killed by accident)? some bullshit.

well of course it depends on your definition of civilian. If you mean a non-uniformed combatants (most terrorist) then yes, they do kill and target them. But they do not specifically target innocent kids, women, and children. Had Israel pursued such a policy, the death toll on the Palestinians would be much, much, more horrific.

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and yes i do understand teh different with civilians being targeted and indirect fire.

Good, so you understand that in the heat of battle, many mistakes are made, and many innocent killed, yet this is different then the direct discipline, of a suicide bomber entering into a peaceful environment in the hopes of killing as many people as he can, regardless of their age, gender, so long as they are Jewish or American.

[quoe] how about the israelis going into palastine and demolishing homes? yea, you know they were sleeping inside, but we didnt mean to kill them, only to put them out on the streets and let them die [/QUOTE]

First, Israel does demolish homes. Its doctorine allows this, but warning is always given to occupants to evacuate the houses prior to such actions.

I do not see any problem with the demolishion of homes in wartime, especially when many of these homes are used to hide, and create terrorist attacks against civilians.

The difference between the Israelis and Palestinian in their approach to 'war' is that the Israelis stand infront of their civilians to protect them, the Palestinians, hide in back of them to protect themselves.

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cyrus: You also forgot to mention that these palestinians dont have electricity.. running water and food at times. And sometimes... the Israeli military wont let UN aid workers come in to hospitalize these poor....

Of course, during war, you will sometime damage utility lines and so will short water and electricity (which is provided almost entirely for free by the Israelis to the Palestinians). Of course during military operation, it is also a strategic option to cut electricity to certain areas - this reduces in the end the ammount of casualties.

As for not letting UN aid workers in. Their is no law stating you must. Furthermore the Palestinians have violated the netruality of such observers many times by using them to hide, escape, or smuggle terrorist (and arms) for them. So it would be logical to prevent such a route of escape in the battlefield, and further it reduces the danger to UN workers, wether they be shot by Israeli or Palestinians always seem to be faulted, and are a big uproar in the world when they seem to die in the battlefields.

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Originally posted by Yoepus well of course it depends on your definition of civilian. If you mean a non-uniformed combatants (most terrorist) then yes, they do kill and target them. But they do not specifically target innocent kids, women, and children. Had Israel pursued such a policy, the death toll on the Palestinians would be much, much, more horrific. Good, so you understand that in the heat of battle, many mistakes are made, and many innocent killed, yet this is different then the direct discipline, of a suicide bomber entering into a peaceful environment in the hopes of killing as many people as he can, regardless of their age, gender, so long as they are Jewish or American. how about the israelis going into palastine and demolishing homes? yea, you know they were sleeping inside, but we didnt mean to kill them, only to put them out on the streets and let them die First, Israel does demolish homes. Its doctorine allows this, but warning is always given to occupants to evacuate the houses prior to such actions. I do not see any problem with the demolishion of homes in wartime, especially when many of these homes are used to hide, and create terrorist attacks against civilians. The difference between the Israelis and Palestinian in their approach to 'war' is that the Israelis stand infront of their civilians to protect them, the Palestinians, hide in back of them to protect themselves. Of course, during war, you will sometime damage utility lines and so will short water and electricity (which is provided almost entirely for free by the Israelis to the Palestinians). Of course during military operation, it is also a strategic option to cut electricity to certain areas - this reduces in the end the ammount of casualties. As for not letting UN aid workers in. Their is no law stating you must. Furthermore the Palestinians have violated the netruality of such observers many times by using them to hide, escape, or smuggle terrorist (and arms) for them. So it would be logical to prevent such a route of escape in the battlefield, and further it reduces the danger to UN workers, wether they be shot by Israeli or Palestinians always seem to be faulted, and are a big uproar in the world when they seem to die in the battlefields.

quite a funny response, the logic is very funny, you are talking like it is a movie or something