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Originally posted by TranceGiant There is a fundamental difference between European and American Immigration. Unfortunately Europe has NOT managed to successfully integrate its immigrants, whereas the US, since the beginnings of massive immgration waves at the turn of the century, has successfully established (sure, there are some flaws here and there) a multicultural society. Canada even topping that being probably the role-model multiculutral country. But as I said, Europe was not successful and theres a huge tension going on in countires like Germany, France and Holland, especially in the big cities. How would you feel if the Immigrants rejected the adaption of their new countrie's language and culture? CVan you imagine that in cities like Berlin there are school where the majority speak Turkish, leading to a huge decrease in the quality of education? (would you like your child to learn under such circumstances?). What's extremely alarming is that Muslims in particular often totally isolate themselves which not rarely leads to extreme positions (as a kind of defense against the western culture surrounding them). Do you know how many Islamistic movements are growing in cities like Berlin, Paris and London? And still, the dutch ARE the most liberal Europeans, also in matters of immigration. Compare them with my country, Austria, or Denmark and France, look at surveys and statistics where its clearly demonstrated that the Dutch are the least antisemitic/xenophoic Europeans. My point is, that Europe has unfortunately navigated itself into a ver yuncomfortable position where theres currently no way back.

the european integration is something different to the american if you want to go the USA as immigrant you have to integrate otherwise you're poor and can't find a job etc.
but in europe especially holland you don't have to integrate you don't have to know the language etc. because you don't have to work and get social security from the goverment because they don't work and the most don't want too
and the immigrants have the highest crime rating in holland

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Originally posted by Eugene Yes, what you wrote is correct... But many Muslims in Europe today also feel like "social outcasts." What if they try their best to adapt, to learn the language, -- but they still get singled out because of a darker skin color, accent, etc.? They still get labeled as "those illegal immigrants" who, as FerryCorstenFan wrote, "cause crime, ruin the economy..." See - they're also social outcasts...

I can safely say that the majority of people moving over to here do fit in, they're your workmates in the office, they run taxi services or work in shops & work hard for a living and I respect that, I don't mind people over here, but I think that some of the illegal ones are causing problems and giving the legal ones bad names, for example, in todays newspaper a muslim extremist has fleeced the government. heres the story

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BRITISH taxpayers have given at least £109,000 to a Muslim firebrand who preaches hate against the West. Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammed has pocketed an average of £340 A WEEK in state benefits since signing on in 1996. The 43-year-old extremist, dubbed the Tottenham Ayatollah, is a disciple of al-Qa’ida chief Osama bin Laden. And he shares a platform with notorious hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza at North London’s Finsbury Park mosque — raided by cops hunting suspects in the ricin poison plot. As we revealed last week, ranting Hamza has also milked the benefits system for thousands of pounds. Mod cons ... his comfortable - and cheap - Edmonton home Bakri’s payouts are shown in Job-Centre chits handed to The Sun. They show the gammy-legged extremist: RAKES in £412.70 a fortnight in jobseekers’ allowance; COLLECTS £37 a week for three of his six children; CLAIMS about £50 a week disability benefit after injuring his leg as a child; RECEIVES free milk for his family — and free medical, dental and eye care; HAS his £1,591.63 council tax paid; and ENJOYS a generous rent reduction on his £180,000 housing association home in Edmonton, North London. Bakri has also had an orange disability badge on his car in the past. Documents show he first got the jobseekers’ allowance on October 9, 1996. Since then, he has signed on for 323 weeks — using the name Fostock. Chief ... Osama bin Laden Bakri yesterday denied the handouts amounted to at least £109,000. He said: “It is a private matter. But I do not make claims I am not entitled to and I do not preach anything that is against the law.” Asked if he was biting the hand that feeds him, Bakri replied: “It’s a foundation of Western culture that I can disagree with you and you can disagree with me.” But even though the documents prove he is still on benefits, Bakri insisted he had received nothing for 18 months. He added: “I’ve started work as a teacher.” Rants ... Hamza Last night moderate Muslims condemned Bakri. Ahmed Versi, editor of The Muslim News, said: “His views are outrageous. He is hot air and no role model for Muslims.” And Inayat Bunglawala, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “We are enormously embarrassed at the antics of radical figures like Omar Bakri. “Islam teaches us we should be grateful for the benefits we receive from God and to be ungrateful is a particularly distasteful quality in a Muslim. “Muslims in the UK recognise what a fruitful place Britain is for us. To then attack this country and its freedoms is insane.” Proof ... Bakri gets £412.70-a-fortnight jobseekers' allowance Bakri was raised in Damascus but moved to the Lebanese capital Beirut when fanatics he supported tried to stage a coup. Bakri then had to flee to Saudi Arabia when Syria invaded Lebanon in 1979. But the Saudis kicked him out in 1986 after he demanded a holy war. Bakri arrived in London with his wife and settled near Spurs’ White Hart Lane ground. In 1991 he was dubbed the Tottenham Ayatollah for urging extremists to assassinate John Major, the then PM. He said: “Major is a legitimate target. I pray to God for someone to kill him.” And in September 1999 he posted an open letter on his website to bin Laden. The message was read out at mosques in Britain and Pakistan — along with a reply from the al-Qa’ida chief. Terror experts branded it an incitement to violence. Bakri has applied for British citizenship three times. The Home Office has rejected ALL of his pleas. But despite his dangerous rants, he was granted “exceptional leave to remain” because Syria will not give him a passport. Bakri’s response to his hosts was to carry on preaching his homilies of hatred. He said of the September 11 terror outrages in the US: “It was a towering day in history.” Last year, he marked the anniversary with a gloating rally at the Finsbury Park Mosque. Bakri runs his own Muslim extremist group, Al-Muhajiroun, from an office in Tottenham. It is dedicated to the creation of an Islamic state in Britain. Bakri said in July 1999: “I want to see the black flag of Islam over Downing Street. “We share the same objectives as the Taliban and al-Qa’ida.” Now he is crusading against the bid to disarm Iraq, insisting: “This is a war against Islam.” Bakri has been warned by Home Secretary David Blunkett that he is being watched. But he has said: “I am not a person crying to remain here. If the British government wants to deport me, they can. But I have broken no laws.” Tory jobs spokesman David Willetts last night denounced Bakri, saying: “It is ludicrous British taxpayers are financing him to attack our way of life.”

He is given £345 a week or $565 from the government

For medical reasons I'm unable to work and I get £65 a week or 6 times less, and for people on jobseekers allowance, who are looking for work it is £45.

Tell me how that is right, someone who preaches against the west, and it's not just the UK, its all of europe & America too, Canada, the whole way of life.

And tell me that money wouldn't be better spent on helping an old lady with an operation or putting it into our underfinanced education system, simply you couldn't if ur a decent person. This man is the kind of person we don't want here, I have nothing against people who come over legally & earn their way but this asshole isn't, and I think I have a right to be pissed about it.

to add to the topic now, that is why in my opinion More & more people will choose to vote for the extreme right parties, to make a stand against this, I am not saying that they are right, just that I think they will use the current situation that is in europe to see more like in Holland & France

I think european laws have to be modified in a way to force immigrants into integration, and to chase illegal ones out. Also they shouldn't be offered that much social aid, because if they allready came to europe seeking better life, they have to work for it. Otherwise they tend to stick together, isolate themselves and become unproductive or turn to crime.

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