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Originally posted by melech_mike Dont roll your eyes at me!! If you dont agree with one or more of these websites please refernce what site and what part you have a problem with. Refute anything that you feel is wrong/propaganda/lies/incitment!

Do you think peace will be found by finding blame?

If there is ever to be peace both sides have to forgive and forget. Neither side wants to do that, both sides want to prove who's right or wrong.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

Peace is only attainable if you end the blame game and end the hate.

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Originally posted by Thor Do you think peace will be found by finding blame? If there is ever to be peace both sides have to forgive and forget. Neither side wants to do that, both sides want to prove who's right or wrong. Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Peace is only attainable if you end the blame game and end the hate.

Well if you're going to tell melech-mike to absolve himself from the blame game you have a lot of people on the opposite side to tell as well.

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Originally posted by occrider Well if you're going to tell melech-mike to absolve himself from the blame game you have a lot of people on the opposite side to tell as well.

That IS the point. It never ends the cycle of hate, violence, blame.

As an outsider that chooses no side in this issue and I think that peace comes from people willing to lay their differences aside and work towards making peace.

Eye for an Eye until everyone is blind right?

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I really don't see this problem. I spend a lot of time reading this forum, and many of the other forums on these boards as well, and I can tell you straight up that flaming is no more common here than it is on any other forum I visit, nor is it more severe.

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Originally posted by melech_mike Dont roll your eyes at me!! If you dont agree with one or more of these websites please refernce what site and what part you have a problem with. Refute anything that you feel is wrong/propaganda/lies/incitment!

just one last time. i'm not saying what u or your websites say is not the truth. i'm saying there is no such thing as truth 4 us humans, only God can know that. we r limited to interpretation. if u don't get it this time, i suppose u never will...

and i'll roll my eyes to whoever i want.

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NFA

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DROP PILLS NOT BOMBS

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just one last time. i'm not saying what u or your websites say is not the truth. i'm saying there is no such thing as truth 4 us humans, only God can know that. we r limited to interpretation. if u don't get it this time, i suppose u never will...

I beg to differ!
I believe that there is such things as absolute truth. I believe that if each of us individually looks deep enough, looks hard enough and actually wants to see the truth, we will find it.

Its easy to dismiss things as misinterpreted, or interpreted differently for each of us, but when we dig deep enough, we will all come up with the same answers. Some may need more clearification than others, but all will prevail to see the truth that surrounds us!
If not now, than later in life when we are able to let our biases evaporate, and lift the wall of ignorance from before us.

If nothing in those websites goes against the code of conduct of this board (lies, incitement, hate, racism, propaganda ect.), i dont see any reason why it was "...deemed offensive". Thats what i'm trying to get at!

*on a side note*
I found this on one of the websites (debka.com). In the past they have published reports of upcomming terror attacks (kenya bombing), and they're sources were right on. The attacks in Kenya came just three days after the website reported the threat.
Here is the new threat. Lets see what happends this time!

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debka.com wrote: Al Qaeda publishes new threat over affiliated Web site to carry out big terror attack in the United States in ten days’ time

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

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Originally posted by melech_mike I beg to differ! I believe that there is such things as absolute truth. I believe that if each of us individually looks deep enough, looks hard enough and actually wants to see the truth, we will find it. Its easy to dismiss things as misinterpreted, or interpreted differently for each of us, but when we dig deep enough, we will all come up with the same answers. Some may need more clearification than others, but all will prevail to see the truth that surrounds us! If not now, than later in life when we are able to let our biases evaporate, and lift the wall of ignorance from before us. If nothing in those websites goes against the code of conduct of this board (lies, incitement, hate, racism, propaganda ect.), i dont see any reason why it was "...deemed offensive". Thats what i'm trying to get at! *on a side note* I found this on one of the websites (debka.com). In the past they have published reports of upcomming terror attacks (kenya bombing), and they're sources were right on. The attacks in Kenya came just three days after the website reported the threat. Here is the new threat. Lets see what happends this time!

Just looking over those sites they look all pro Israeli or run by Israeli's..

If you wanted accurate information you goto non partisan, 3rd party sources that have no agenda.

Truth can be twisted into whatever you want it to, but those sites you read are biased information.. If you could focus more on information from non pro Israeli or pro Palestine then I would be glad to read those.

Outside of that my point still stands that it doesn't matter who started it, who's right or wrong, etc.. What matters is finding a solution to the violence and hate. Finding blame, accusing each other, none of that helps towards the goal of lasting peace.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.. Is your solution finding truth to say the palestinians are wrong? You think that will end the violence or make things better? Of course not, its an argument that can not be won.

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Just looking over those sites they look all pro Israeli or run by Israeli's.. If you wanted accurate information you goto non partisan, 3rd party sources that have no agenda. Truth can be twisted into whatever you want it to, but those sites you read are biased information.. If you could focus more on information from non pro Israeli or pro Palestine then I would be glad to read those. Outside of that my point still stands that it doesn't matter who started it, who's right or wrong, etc.. What matters is finding a solution to the violence and hate. Finding blame, accusing each other, none of that helps towards the goal of lasting peace. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.. Is your solution finding truth to say the palestinians are wrong? You think that will end the violence or make things better? Of course not, its an argument that can not be won.

Your right, they all lean towards Israels side. It doesn't matter who wrote what, the information is correct and cannot be refuted!!
If an Arab wrote the same information only than you would find it to be 'good' information? Thats crazy! The truth is the truth, no matter who states it!

I am looking for a solution and thats why i'm posting those sites. We cant find a solution to the problem without first fully understanding what the problem is!
It seems as though people have misconceptions of whats happening in the mid east not only now, but what has taken place in the past.
I evidence is overwhelming. One of the two sides has a history of fucking up. Unless we find where the problems are, we will never find a solution to them!
If the world realizes whos the problem child in this case, than they will condemn the actions of that party/organization. If we dont but blame on someone, than they will not feel like they have done anything wrong... therefore they will not correct they're actions and there will never be a solution!

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Originally posted by melech_mike Your right, they all lean towards Israels side. It doesn't matter who wrote what, the information is correct and cannot be refuted!! If an Arab wrote the same information only than you would find it to be 'good' information? Thats crazy! The truth is the truth, no matter who states it! I am looking for a solution and thats why i'm posting those sites. We cant find a solution to the problem without first fully understanding what the problem is! It seems as though people have misconceptions of whats happening in the mid east not only now, but what has taken place in the past. I evidence is overwhelming. One of the two sides has a history of fucking up. Unless we find where the problems are, we will never find a solution to them! If the world realizes whos the problem child in this case, than they will condemn the actions of that party/organization. If we dont but blame on someone, than they will not feel like they have done anything wrong... therefore they will not correct they're actions and there will never be a solution!

Truth as they see it though. You ask Palastinians to read those sites and they will disagree with their facts and call it propoganda.

So after you have proven to everyone that you are right and the palastinians are wrong; will this then cause peace. All the palastinians will just one day go "Oh shit we are wrong, ok lets stop the violence and thank those who pointed out our wrong ways, VIVA LA ISRAEL!"

My point to you is still what you hope to accomplish arguing and fighting over how right the Israeli's are and how wrong the Palastines are? You think that is the way towards peace?

Cause you have to know that the Palastinians feel exactly the opposite and feel very strongly about their views.. So what exactly do you do to find peace when both sides are convinced they are just and right while the other is dead wrong and deserves to die.

Peace is not found by proving anyone wrong, peace is found by letting go of the past wrongs and starting on a hard road to break the cycle of violence.

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Truth as they see it though. You ask Palastinians to read those sites and they will disagree with their facts and call it propoganda.

They may disagree... i for one disagree with many things.
Whe the truth is presented to me, than i have no choice but to accept it. It seems as though the truth in this situation isn't so clear cut. It seems as though those who dont want to see it, have the choice of listening to others who make up historical falacies, lies ect... There will always be an excuse.
If those who dont believe that the site is supporting facts, and rather is spewing out propaganda, than once again, i'd like to see what they feel that is. I myself, along with many other TA's saw no problem with these sites. The information on them checks out and should be regarded as the truth, and not "israeli propaganda"!

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So after you have proven to everyone that you are right and the palastinians are wrong; will this then cause peace. All the palastinians will just one day go "Oh shit we are wrong, ok lets stop the violence and thank those who pointed out our wrong ways, VIVA LA ISRAEL!"

I dont need to prove anything... it has already been proven! There is string evidence supporting my arguement! Once again, the person who chooses to find the truth, will ultimately find it!
The Palestinians have no clue of whats going on, they are shut out from regular civilization! they're leaders regard them as animals! They are mistreated and threatend for having opposing views.
As the great Albert Einstein once said "Peace can not be achieved through violence, it can only be achieved through understanding".
Understanding the problems they lay in the mid-east is the key to finding a solution!! Hopefully one day the Palestinian people will be able to be more learned abuot the world around them and will stand up and fight their dictatorship! Maybe than we might hear "Oh shit we are wrong, ok lets stop the violence and thank those who pointed out our wrong ways, VIVA LA ISRAEL!"

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Peace is not found by proving anyone wrong, peace is found by letting go of the past wrongs and starting on a hard road to break the cycle of violence.

My question to you and anybody else is, who do you think should initiate this supposed 'peace proposal'? Israelis dont trust the Palestinian Authority, they have proved time and again that they are not worthy of trust! They always have something up their sleve!
Five Israeli PM's couldn't find a solution with Arafat. Dont you think its time for him to step down and let 'his' people vote for who they want to represent them?
I feel that the PA has a lot of making up to do before anyone sees them as a partner for peace. They have fucked up one too many times to be considered a legit organization. Just look at the PLO and PA's track records (not trance records, although if they did produce anything it would probably be a repetitive 1980'2 style bassline with a women in arabic inciting children to become martyers AKA HOMICIDAL KILLERS)!!!

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Last edited by melech_mike on Feb-27-2003 at 23:14

I think Peace has to start from the inside and come from outside, like with the UN peacekeeping forces.

I'm not sure about declaring a palestine state, but at this point I do think it's a step forward.

Yes Arafat HAS to go, and that will help things move in the right direction.

The desperation of the Palastine people with poverty, lack of education, etc.. Those things also have to be fixed, people with jobs and a reason to live want to live in peace; people who have nothing tend towards violence to those who they blame for their situation.

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