quote:

Originally posted by hansolo THEIF!!!

fool

if he cannot actually buy them, wtf is wrong with DLing them and playing them, HE CANNOT BUY IT, geez...

___________________
Currently Whoring:

• Space Tribe Vs Electric Universe - Rabbit Hole
  
• CPU - So It Begins
  
• Too Short & Mistah FAB - The Sideshow
  

first of all, no matter how rare, how expensive, or how new it is, if its mp3, the sound quality is shit... im all about sound, and when u play to ppl, i stay away from using different type of format of music besides vinyl.. i dont have any problems at all with cd-rs' but i personally dont own any cd-rs' so i dont play em' but i refuse to play mp3s cuz it fucks up the flow of the set(its like if vinyls were the ibiza ocean, mp3s are the hudson river here in nyc...) and i also think that if u cant play a certain track cuz u couldnt get your hands on it for whatever reason(unreleased, rare, too expensive etc) that means u gotta work harder to make it a dope set.. so its more of a challenge for yourself.. and if u accomplish that, then you'll feel good knowing u fully rocked the joint.

lets start the fuck mp3s aliance !!

___________________
NIC FANCIULLI @ STUDIO B [Brooklyn] w/ Dany Veltri, Chris Luzz & Tae Seol -Fri. June 20, 2008
RHODE KILL 2 @ THE RANCH [RI] -18/19/20 July 2008
WEBSITE-MYSPACE-[email protected]

quote:

Originally posted by Widget The comments about buying the record second hand and that money not going to the artist is true, I'll admit to that. But downloading the track isn't exactly helping the artist either? Most people (and you may or may not be one of them), once they start downloading rare tracks, it's always easier to continue downloading tracks that aren't rare - it's a bit like a habit. My one point which you aren't answering is that by justifying you playing tracks that are too expensive, you're the one who is defining too expensive. So is US10 too much, but US9.99 okay? The line is very flimsy and easily moved. I just have a problem with people who play downloaded versions of tracks and then try and justify it by hiding behind the comments of a "track is rare", "expensive", etc. As for me being able to afford every record I want, I definitely can't. I'm a grad student at University - I'll just decide to buy records instead of going out sometimes. Downloading tracks is just easier than spending the money (and cheaper), no one will argue with that. If you're happy with doing that, then I doubt anything that I say will change your mind. I've had this discussion with people before and no one changes their minds.

Ok here;s the thing.. you're blowing things way out of proportion here. Like i mentioned before.. this "gig" was a total last minute thing. I dont dj for a living no do i plan to. I do it for fun. Im not making money off it.

Yes, downloading a track is easier.. but if i can get my hands on the vinyl then i will. I myself like the feel of vinyl. But sometimes you dont have the time to get certain tracks. Like with this gig.. i was invited to do it on wed... and there were some tracks that i wanted to play. With a full time job i dont have time to go out vinyl searching round town for those particular vinyl. Sometimes you have to think bout wat the situation is where ppl do this. IF i wanted to be a totally cd dj then why the hell would i spend money on turntables????

The line between what is too expensive and what isnt is very clearly defined for me. For Ayu - M EP.. i got it for roughly 30 dollars. New. So yes.. this purchase was worth it. For Goldenscan.. i got it for 6 bux. And you know how rare this is. So..i would say my limit is bout 30 bux or so not including shipping. I dont feel its justified to pay anymore for a vinyl no matter what unless its gold plated or something. So i hope that answers ur question.

Being a student you know how money can be tight and you have to plan out how you use your finances. Its your choice to spend all your money on vinyl but it isnt mine. To me its a hobby. Vinyl is not a top priority in my life as it seems to be in yours. I have bills to pay, car payments to pay, loans to pay back... you know how it is. How you waste your money is your choice. I just choose to use my hard earned money toward things which have more priority in my life.

Also..i will find it hard to believe that you've never downloaded anything ever. Divx maybe? svcds, vcd, cracked programs, maybe even photocopied a book at school instead of buying the book. These are all pretty much the same situation. By doing any of the above you take profit from the distributor. So if you've NEVER done any of these things or anything similar.. then you are the most law-abiding guy in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Widget You want a ferrari, then you work and you buy it when you can afford it. People who realy want ferrari's will go out and buy them. Rubbish. If you really wanted the track to play, then you'd be prepared to pay the money for it. You're giving yourself an advantage over other DJs who have *morals* and thus won't play burnt music. If you're playing CD-Rs, mp3s, using final scratch then you should be doing so with music that you own. Not ripped, burnt tracks that you're too lazy to go out and look for yourself. Your argument about tracks being rare and expensive isn't worth anything. The reason they're expensive is because they're rare, because they weren't released in large quantities and thus every single DJ in the world shouldn't be playing that track. If you argue about ripping tracks off John Digweed's radio sets, he's got those white labels because he's a recognised DJ, who has done his thing for the scene and supported it. If you want to be able to get those same tracks in advance, then earn it. Stop trying to look better than other DJs by spinning rarer tracks and scewing the artists and remixes over. You argue that you only use rips of rare and expensive tracks, lemme guess, but the end of the year you'll decide that $15 is too much for a vinyl, so you'll start ripping the easily available ones. Don't hide behind the "expensive and rare" line. Basis for the story - if you want to play/DJ music publically, own it. and just for the record, I've just bought a copy of Ayu - 'M'. Why? because I think it's an incredible track and I want to be able to play it for people. I don't know about you, but I won't be playing tracks that I haven't bought and own myself.

dude, not everyone can get their hands on limited, rare vinyls. not everyone is as accessible as some of you folks.

As long as one is unable to get it on vinyl(may it be out of stock, limited, rare), it is completely fine to play it on CDR. Blame the labels and the record company for not pressing more and trying to make it limited and special.

Big names get to play whites and promos, most cant get hold of them and love to include them in sets, its fine by all means since it is the dj who decides to play what he wants. It does help to push the same piece of music to their own listeners, this is how music spreads.

As for paying hundred of bucks for a piece of vinyl or EP just to play it, if you are loaded, go ahead and get it, i rather support tons of other producers with the money. if it is slightly more costly and affordable with some saving up, it is ok.

Stupid to get an ferrari when you cant even afford it. you are talking as thou you will get one even if you will save up a lifetime for it.

Get real and put yourselves into others position and give some thought about it.

___________________
Trance Republic

Last edited by JasK on Mar-11-2003 at 07:32

quote:

Originally posted by JasK dude, not everyone can get their hands on limited, rare vinyls. not everyone is as accessible as some of you folks. As long as one is unable to get it on vinyl(may it be out of stock, limited, rare), it is completely fine to play it on CDR. Blame the labels and the record company for not pressing more and trying to make it limited and special. Big names get to play whites and promos, most cant get hold of them and love to include them in sets, its fine by all means since it is the dj who decides to play what he wants. It does help to push the same piece of music to their own listeners, this is how music spreads. As for paying hundred of bucks for a piece of vinyl or EP just to play it, if you are loaded, go ahead and get it, i rather support tons of other producers with the money. if it is slightly more costly and affordable with some saving up, it is ok. Stupid to get an ferrari when you cant even afford it. you are talking as thou you will get one even if you will save up a lifetime for it. Get real and put yourselves into others position and give some thought about it.

thank you very much...

Before we go anywhere with argueing, let me state that I have no problem using cd decks. I have a problem with people burn tracks on to cds and spinning them in public. You did not pay for it, its illegal end of story. If its a new track, tough shit, become a better DJ. The people that get promo's/rare vinyls, get them because somehow they are in that position that allows for this to happen. Its called working hard to get to where you want to be.

quote:

if he cannot actually buy them, wtf is wrong with DLing them and playing them, HE CANNOT BUY IT, geez...

Arctic - What are you talking about. That is like saying I cant actually buy this $120,000 car, but I can steal it, change the VIN numbers and so that way its not actually stealing cause I CANNOT BUY IT, thats ridiculous man.

The only CDR's anyone should play (in public) are the ones they paid for, received as promos, or are ones they made themselves and are not yet on vinyl (I would not include reworks etc, unless you have original artist consent). Everything else is theft and when the law finally catches up to technology do you really think that playing a track on CDR, without the above avenues, would be considered legal??

Right now, I guess I just rely on peoples morals.

ps. RIP Lightning Records

pps. The only vinyls I buy second hand are the ones that are no longer available. If they were, its worth the dollar or 2 extra to get it new.

quote:

Originally posted by uwmadtrance I don't think there is anything wrong with it as long as you aren't getting paid to play the stuff you burned. Now, a track or two here or there, I don't think is a big deal, but a whole set of burned CDs should not be done. Taking advantage of people with free material is just wrong IMO.

i completely agree

___________________

quote:

Originally texted by Jakhira Out with the dog at the moment. Chicks love him, and I love chicks... The world is in harmony

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo Before we go anywhere with argueing, let me state that I have no problem using cd decks. I have a problem with people burn tracks on to cds and spinning them in public. You did not pay for it, its illegal end of story. If its a new track, tough shit, become a better DJ. The people that get promo's/rare vinyls, get them because somehow they are in that position that allows for this to happen. Its called working hard to get to where you want to be. Arctic - What are you talking about. That is like saying I cant actually buy this $120,000 car, but I can steal it, change the VIN numbers and so that way its not actually stealing cause I CANNOT BUY IT, thats ridiculous man. The only CDR's anyone should play (in public) are the ones they paid for, received as promos, or are ones they made themselves and are not yet on vinyl (I would not include reworks etc, unless you have original artist consent). Everything else is theft and when the law finally catches up to technology do you really think that playing a track on CDR, without the above avenues, would be considered legal?? Right now, I guess I just rely on peoples morals. ps. RIP Lightning Records pps. The only vinyls I buy second hand are the ones that are no longer available. If they were, its worth the dollar or 2 extra to get it new.

ok ... lets look at this from another angle. Now let's just talk about old and rare records. The reason they are rare is because there was a limited quanitity and people bought them all. Rare usually means that there is no supply left correct? Now.. since all the supply was purchased by people.. that means that the profit from these initial sales did go to the artist. Artists do not see any profit from any subsequent sale of the record. (ie If the original purchaser sells it off) All profit of that secondhand sale goes directly into the pockets of that person. Now...if a person were to play a rip of that song, how is that stealing from the original artist, WHEN he already received all profits from the record being sold out on initial sales? When ppl sell Ayu-M for 250 bux on ebay.. do u think Ayu sees any of that? i think this is the point that jdat was trying to make.

I just want to make the point that not all people who get rare vinyls are top djs. Many are just regular people like you and me who are at the right place at the right time. They just happen to buy it.

Last thing i want to ask you is if you've ever downloaded any divx, svcds, vcds, cracked programs, photocopied a book, or anything of the sort. If you have.. please do not talk about morals.

quote:

Originally posted by tor8024 i completely agree

totally... ppl.. get it in your head... we were doing it for fun... no money involved... sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by wushuboy ok ... lets look at this from another angle. Now let's just talk about old and rare records. The reason they are rare is because there was a limited quanitity and people bought them all. Rare usually means that there is no supply left correct? Now.. since all the supply was purchased by people.. that means that the profit from these initial sales did go to the artist. Artists do not see any profit from any subsequent sale of the record. (ie If the original purchaser sells it off) All profit of that secondhand sale goes directly into the pockets of that person. Now...if a person were to play a rip of that song, how is that stealing from the original artist, WHEN he already received all profits from the record being sold out on initial sales? When ppl sell Ayu-M for 250 bux on ebay.. do u think Ayu sees any of that? i think this is the point that jdat was trying to make. I just want to make the point that not all people who get rare vinyls are top djs. Many are just regular people like you and me who are at the right place at the right time. They just happen to buy it. Last thing i want to ask you is if you've ever downloaded any divx, svcds, vcds, cracked programs, photocopied a book, or anything of the sort. If you have.. please do not talk about morals.

Fair enough, I can give you the rare records no longer in print. Only problem is the record no longer retains value if it were to be a special re-release 2-3 years down the line. If you got it burnt would you buy it?? I would for sure, if anything to support the artist. This is where I am concerened, because a lot of people would not.

You know what your right. I have downloaded stuff from the Net, but I have not taken my computer and set it up in a mall and showcased that movie for everyone for free. Remember, spin, play, burn, download, whatever it is, just do it in private not in public. But even if your not making money, someone should be, if the music is not yours. (its sad but thats the only way it works)

As for reference to morals, i should have stated TRance Morals (I know cheesy, but still). Im addicted to this music in every facet of my life. If I was president of the world it would be trance 24/7 over loud speakers. Support fucking trance music is what I am trying to say. Fuck hip hop, let it die before trance. BAD BOY RECORDS alive - LIGHTNING RECORDS dead.

I know that its impossible not to download new tunes, trance is our drug and we need it. But we have to make sure, especially cause we are such technological whores and have such access to the newest stuff, that what we believe in and support does not go down because of ignorance, lack of support, and sadly lack of funds. MONEY MONEY MONEY, Makes the trance go round, unless we live on a trance kibbutz.

I hope you understand what I am saying here. Yeah its hypocritical, but really these days you have to pick and choose what you care about and support and as for the rest of it, I dont have the patience or the energy to care anymore. I just dont want our scene to die before it evolves, and we are the ones that keep it alive, so try do everything you can to keep it alive.

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo Fair enough, I can give you the rare records no longer in print. Only problem is the record no longer retains value if it were to be a special re-release 2-3 years down the line. If you got it burnt would you buy it?? I would for sure, if anything to support the artist. This is where I am concerened, because a lot of people would not. You know what your right. I have downloaded stuff from the Net, but I have not taken my computer and set it up in a mall and showcased that movie for everyone for free. Remember, spin, play, burn, download, whatever it is, just do it in private not in public. But even if your not making money, someone should be, if the music is not yours. (its sad but thats the only way it works) As for reference to morals, i should have stated TRance Morals (I know cheesy, but still). Im addicted to this music in every facet of my life. If I was president of the world it would be trance 24/7 over loud speakers. Support fucking trance music is what I am trying to say. Fuck hip hop, let it die before trance. BAD BOY RECORDS alive - LIGHTNING RECORDS dead. I know that its impossible not to download new tunes, trance is our drug and we need it. But we have to make sure, especially cause we are such technological whores and have such access to the newest stuff, that what we believe in and support does not go down because of ignorance, lack of support, and sadly lack of funds. MONEY MONEY MONEY, Makes the trance go round, unless we live on a trance kibbutz. I hope you understand what I am saying here. Yeah its hypocritical, but really these days you have to pick and choose what you care about and support and as for the rest of it, I dont have the patience or the energy to care anymore. I just dont want our scene to die before it evolves, and we are the ones that keep it alive, so try do everything you can to keep it alive.

yes i would still buy it. even tho i have burnt ayu-m and goldenscan - sunrise for example.. i still went out and bought the vinyl. If i feel its worth it then i will buy it as i said before.

Just because you dont showcase the stuff you download for private use in public doesnt change the fact that its still pirated. You are still taking money away from the dvd distributors and software companies. I said it many times .. i did not make any money from djing at the import showoff. YEs you are correct that someone shold be making money...if you hold this to be true.. you should go out and buy the dvd instead of getting the rip. Dont gimme this double standard.

Im glad you see that wat you've said is a bit hyprocritical. I agree that we need to support artists out there.. and i do. I dont know how many times ive said that i buy vinyl as well as use cdr. If you really want to support your artists.. why dont you just donate half your income to them.. im sure they will appreciate it. You're right when we say we have to pick and choose what wat we care about. In my life.. vinyl is not #1.

I hope you recant what you said about me and the other djs that were using cds at that show being theives.

I use cds and vinyl in my sets. To me, no matter what medium you play on, you're basically promoting the song to people. Regardless of royalties and all the monetary issues, isn't the entire point of being a dj getting the music that you love out to the masses? So that they become tranceaddicts as well? I only want to dj so that I can see the reactions of the crowd, make them jump up and down and scream...to the music I love. Getting paid to do it is nice, but I'd rather experience the entire crowd bumping, crowd jumping, as a dj.

I think we're all getting too carried away. The entire point of producers, labels, etc., giving away promos of songs is to push them out to people so that they buy the vinyl, song, album, whatever for themselves. If we play songs that we download, and if we get paid or not, it doesn't really matter because there will be people who say "what's this song?...i want it!!!". As DJ's, we're promoting the music.

You can have your morals about royalties, but to me, I don't really give a damn about that aspect because like it or not, we're helping out the labels, and to a lesser extent, the artists, by playing the song.