Geez, so many of you here are computer geezers lol
I'm in economics, so in 10 years, even if I'll be on the unemployment list, at least I'll know why I'm there!
But in reality, if you, for instance, think you're so damn life smart (e.g. apply, use, utilize) then why waste time and money for education? Start your own business and (if it goes "smooth") in 10 years you'll be the one making fun of university students. But since it's so damn risky, why not get the damn piece of paper, which will always back you up? If you start a business and it fucks up then it's not "Mr. Ash, you're fired!" it's "Mr. Ash YOU'RE BURNED!!!!!!"
Áåç áóìàæêè òû êàêàøêà (rus). (some will understand)

For those of you who plan to take gov't aid to go to school (OSAP or otherwise) and then plan to go to Europe to avoid paying it back:

Thanks a lot from all us Canadians who pay 49% tax on our paycheques. If Europe is so good, why don't you go there and have them pay for your education - Canada pays for your schooling (in trust that you'll pay it back) becuase the gov't thinks you'll stay here long enough for the country to benifit.

If you're prepared to steal the average everyday Canadian's money to got to school, then I'm really disappointed. If you use the money, you better pay it back. Just becuase you can move away doesn't mean you don't have to pay - I have to pay, and every other Canadian has to pay. You should be ashamed that you even consider this - it's theft in disguise.

Pay back your student loans.. Even if it takes you 20 years. The gov't is good enough to trust you to do it - so you should be compelled to pay it back.

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- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

Durafei you are 100% right in your first post.

These days the IT world is so much in trouble, landing a job with an university degree is fucking hard! Look at me, 3 months after graduating and still nothing, even with 2 years experience. But does this mean I did it for nothing? no! In these hard time, you have to go back to school (masters, mba, etc) and/or get certified. When the market is booming and strong, fuck school, don't bother. You have to know how to play this game.

Also, I must say, other than the official certification programs like MSCE, SAP, J2EE, A+, etc given by big companies, the rest is a pure scam! I wonder why the govt is letting those shitty private schools give 6 months brain cramming sessions for 15000$... you have a shitload of people not knowing how the hell a computer works, or how data structures are useful, etc and these same idiots give a bad rep to the IT world, and also clog the market with armies of countless "IT professionals" wanabees... these schools only hype the whole thing, selling you the idea that you will be an excellent analyst in a short period of time! wow there must be a catch

IMO the best thing is a combination of a generalist diploma (college or uni) followed by a certification in an area the student is intrested in. specialization alone is useless, cause when the next big thing arrives, you'll be useless and we know how the IT world changes fast!

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quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker For those of you who plan to take gov't aid to go to school (OSAP or otherwise) and then plan to go to Europe to avoid paying it back: Thanks a lot from all us Canadians who pay 49% tax on our paycheques. If Europe is so good, why don't you go there and have them pay for your education - Canada pays for your schooling (in trust that you'll pay it back) becuase the gov't thinks you'll stay here long enough for the country to benifit. If you're prepared to steal the average everyday Canadian's money to got to school, then I'm really disappointed. If you use the money, you better pay it back. Just becuase you can move away doesn't mean you don't have to pay - I have to pay, and every other Canadian has to pay. You should be ashamed that you even consider this - it's theft in disguise. Pay back your student loans.. Even if it takes you 20 years. The gov't is good enough to trust you to do it - so you should be compelled to pay it back.

Oh well...

If I get a solid job in the first couple of months after I graduate in this country, I'll probably stick around for a few more years and actually bother paying back the loan... otherwise, I'm not wasting my time, heading back to Europe, and I might actually think about paying the loan back once I save up a $million or two.

And by the way, if you wanna complain about "us" stealing everyday's Canadian money, you should point the finger to your government first. They take like 30% of your paycheque, then another 15% on anything you buy, and in the end you're basically working for $3/hr! And then you realize that Prime Minister spent enough money on his limo driver this weekend to pay for your tuition. But hey, who am I to complain...

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Keep it real, and stay single, always mingle...

quote:

Originally posted by fantom Oh well... If I get a solid job in the first couple of months after I graduate in this country, I'll probably stick around for a few more years and actually bother paying back the loan... otherwise, I'm not wasting my time, heading back to Europe, and I might actually think about paying the loan back once I save up a $million or two.

It's funny how many people in their early 20ies like yourself and E-master wanna move back to Europe hoping for a better and more successfull future. Have you lived in Europe without supervision of your parents? Try living there on your own, and you'll see all the harsh realities of europe - it's MUCH more expensive and it's a lot harder to get a job.

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My Blog: durafei.blogspot.com - Last Update March 23, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei E-master: ========== Your school promised you a 95% employement at times when market was booming. Market is in shit right now. Hence no 95% employment. Hell, people with 20 years of experience are jobless for months at the moment. Now about certifications and 3 months courses. It's because of those people who got their certifications and haven't got any education that MOST software right now is SHIT! You think your certification will make you qualified for the job?? No fuckin' way! It might help you find a job, but you'll be FAR FAR less qualified than someone who actually got post-secondary education and doesn't have your stupid certification. SMART employers realize that and will give priority to someone with higher education. The purpose of post-secondary education is not to teach you a particular topic(ie. Oracle). The purpose(at least as it seems to me) is to teach you how to learn. This is FAR FAR more important. I have a lot of friends who've graduated CS from University of Waterloo last year, when market was at it's worst. They had trouble getting a job, but they GOT it! Education is THE most important thing for your success and career.

I agree with everything in this post except for the last line. I read an article in Forbes Magazine, where they did a study of "successful" people in the US. They looked at their SAT scores (to gauge their intelligence), and then looked at their education. What they found was that most people who scored highly on their SATs ended up successful regardless of their education. This would suggest that it's really intelligence which is the most important factor for success. If you're smart, you'll find a way to succeed.

quote:

Originally posted by xls I agree with everything in this post except for the last line. I read an article in Forbes Magazine, where they did a study of "successful" people in the US. They looked at their SAT scores (to gauge their intelligence), and then looked at their education. What they found was that most people who scored highly on their SATs ended up successful regardless of their education. This would suggest that it's really intelligence which is the most important factor for success. If you're smart, you'll find a way to succeed.

It's definitely true that the smarter you are, the more likely you are to succeed.

I'm not sure though that SATs measure that "smartness" factor accurately. You can actually study for SAT; as a result a smarter person who didn't study much, might potentially get a lower mark than a student who is not as smart, but studied much more. So I'm kinda questioning that study.

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My Blog: durafei.blogspot.com - Last Update March 23, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Have you lived in Europe without supervision of your parents? Try living there on your own, and you'll see all the harsh realities of europe - it's MUCH more expensive and it's a lot harder to get a job.

Yes, some of us have lived on our own, without supervision of our parents... and managed to do just great considering the circumstances.

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quote:

Originally posted by fantom Yes, some of us have lived on our own, without supervision of our parents... and managed to do just great considering the circumstances.

So what made you move here????

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My Blog: durafei.blogspot.com - Last Update March 23, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei So what made you move here????

Do you really want me to go into that...?

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Keep it real, and stay single, always mingle...

lol

SAT exams reflect nothing about a persons intelligence. Some of my friends applied to American schools and they had to take the SAT exams. I saw some of them. Its pure garbage. You gotta know stuff like american history, analizing english passages from novels. There is also some mathematics, but its not basic arithmetic. Its more complex defined math, were you actually have to study it in school before you take the exam, otherwise you wouldn't know what the questions are asking.