hey all

this topic definately has three sides - the consumer's, the producer's and the record company's...

i'm really into the advancements in technology in the most recent years regarding music and computers and the mp3 is most definately a great thing for a lot of reasons.

but, you guys have to face facts. the mp3 is a major factor in the downturn of the music industry, esp fringe genres like dance music.

record companies make money when someone goes into a store and buys one of thier records/cd's/videos, etc. the artist makes upwards of 18-20% of the profit after the record company has recouped their advance they paid the artist. when someone "rips" a song and puts it on a file sharing system, at face value, that's stealing. stealing from both the record label and the artist who made the song.

i'm well aware that there are a lot of us out there who have gained quicker acceptance by music fans thanks to digital distribution and these are the same people who, upon downloading your tune, will pay money to come and see them dj and or perform live.

while this is great, it's still not right. when i was a teenager, i had to buy cd's and records and if i liked the performer, then i also purchased tickets to go see them live. why should it be any different now?

in this world, one has to make a living by getting paid. i think a lot of folks who don't work in the industry think that all of us live like jennifer lopez and the over-inflated egos that pass for rap stars out there. well, i'm gonna bust that myth right now. very few get rich from dance music, and most people are just scraping by or "making a living" from it. in order to pay rent, put food on the table and pay for car loans etc, you have to make money. if a producer doesn't make money from the music they create, then they have to go out and get a job that will pay them.

i think lolo is right that internet downloading has hurt dance music. for evidence, have a look at all the record labels that have gone by the wayside in just only the past year. big powerhouse dance labels likme strictly, lightning records on the indie sector and the majors both in the u.s. and abroad have either written off dance music (like warner bros, v2, sony, interscope, etc) completely or severely cut back on releases to only the most cookie-cutter, chart fodder that nobody's gonna care about in 2 years.

i'm also well aware of the financial hard times that most of the major record buying countries are under presently, but when the money's tight, what are people going to do? cut back. so since music by and large "free" now thanks to file sharing, those with no money still can get the music they love and the price certainly is right!

do you think that's fair?

now granted, the labels are plenty guilty of feeding the file-sharing beast. by not releasing things in a timely fashion or not at all, fans will do almost anything to get that song or remix that they heard in the club. labels until the cd burning revoltion had full control of a song's destiny and used this to their advantage to manipulate the charts. labels need to learn that this is now the same system that screwing them and the artists out of their earnings.

the music industry as a whole needs to look at the situation from all sides and come up with a solution that works for everybody, not just them. hello RIAA, are you listening??

in the meantime, i'd just wish that people consider their actions before they leak someone's unreleased song onto soulseek and or think that if they download their music off the net and never purchase anything that they're not hurting the scene. in fact, i can guarantee that if this keeps up, that dance music as we know it will be dead in a not too distant future.

- dave dresden
artist

quote:

Originally posted by davedresden hey all why should it be any different now? - dave dresden artist

Hi Dave Dresden, nice to see u post in here.. Well I´m afraid but I have to disagree with you on this one...
Time has changed and if it´s fair or not the record companys have to face mp3s and needs to learn to making profit of mp3..
But I agree that mp3s hurts the dance industry... I think it´s time to think of some other pay methods!! Perhaps it would be a great idea if you could download a song for 3 € !! I would definitely buy songs!!

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i totally agree that mp3's should be sold from a main site which operates like soulseek - the only difference is that the track titles and mix names will be correct and the rips will more than likely be digital.

i think indie labels should band together and do this type of a thing. that way music can be released to the public in a timely fashion and all of us can feed our faces and still go down into the studio after and spend long hours tweaking out tomorrow's next anthem.

unfortunately, i haven't heard one label even considering something like this...most seem as if they're lying down and taking it. or worse, shutting doors.

too bad winter music conference is only a party...there's a lot of topics affecting the industry that dj's should put their two cents in on this year

- dave

theres some good points from both sides, and i like that dave dresden has said something other than "mp3 is evil and is killing me, stop it now". its a good point he makes about the record companies, and people who download something then go and buy it. trance records are expensive here, especially if you are paying $20 to get a record with 2 tracks on it. It is not as available as in other countries also, i only have a part time job 1 day a week, believe me if i could afford it i would be trying very hard to get all the stuff ive downloaded! also not being a dj, there is less incentive for me to buy them too, but i do what i can!

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new set online, Summer Journeys

the reason record labels go down isn't cuz of the mp3 trading, but cuz of mismanagement of the labels. without mp3s the trance-scene wouldn't be as big as it is right now.
the price of cd's has risen way too much, this is one reason why i download mp3s. i do on the other still buy a lot of albums, cuz some are too good to have as mp3.
people also don't want to buy silly edits, like the albums of Rank 1 and Airwave. no one buys these cd's. true lovers of this genre want the full tracks, and not half ones. i like trance cuz of the climaxes and anti climaxes it creates, and edits don't have that in them.
i don't buy vinyl, and a lot of good doesn't even get on cd, so am i obligated to buy vinyl instead? i don't think so. but i still want the full tracks, so i download the vinylrip. this way the track gets more airplay, which results in more attention. labels want to put the track on compilations then, which is a good thing again, cuz then i'll be able to buy the album

quote:

Originally posted by Switch labels want to put the track on compilations then, which is a good thing again, cuz then i'll be able to buy the album

They usually put two or three good tracks and one which isn't as good on it and fill the rest of the compilation up with crappy tracks.

Lvee makes good music, but I think that after saying all these things he SHOULD leave the industry!

Making music is something that you WANT to do, and you must be driven to do it. Publishing your music is something that just few of as do, and it totally sucks that laurent want to shock the community by saying these words, but he is at a position that a lot of upcoming producers REALLY'd like to take over...

If you can publish an album and then complain that you don't get enough MONEY from it, then please, STOP PRODUCING!

T_2199 makes a valid point.

Music companies need to go the way of the MP3. Find a way to market this technology online and sell/profit from it instead of shunning this medium.

I like MP3's 'cause I can have my music all on one platform instead of switching CD after CD. Tedious and annoying.
Also when it comes to compilations - Labels like Gatecrasher/Ibiza/Ministry of Sound - tend to put out 2-3 good tracks spread over 2 CD's with 40 tracks total. So why do I want to spend $50-$60 for 2-3 great tracks? Doesn't sound right from a consumer stand point now does it? In the past i've purchased TONS. Literally 100's of CD's for 1 track. 1 fucking track. I'm tired of it. It's just not right. If I was able to buy MP3's with the proper sound quality and appropriate track titles and remix titles then I would be more then happy to support this idea.

What is ruining the industry right now is the piss poor distribution of this music whether it's on CD or Vinyl. Takes forever to be released, and some areas just don't cater to this style of music and you end up paying way more then you should have to in order to aquire.

If you could set up a site that distributed electronic dance music MP3's - slap a sample of the track up to generate some interest - put the track up to be downloaded. 1,2,3 done. Simple as that. I would definitely buy way more music if something like this came into play.

The music industry needs to wake the fuck up and start realizing that they can't cram shit down the comsumers throat like they have in the past thinking that they will get away with it.

I have no problem purchasing a CD if I deem 70-80% of the tracks to be of quality. Hell, sometimes I buy Vinyl to get autographed at concerts the following day. I'm not even a Dj nor do I even have a record player. All for support! But artists and labels alike need to realize that the consumer will not allow themselves to be roped into buying a CD based on 1-2 tracks while the other tracks are hardly worth a listen. I think even the producers know at heart they are selling their shit based on one track.

Anyhow that's about it, I think. I'm sure I have more to say on this, but i'm at work right now, so i'm kinda distracted.

signed

Well... l I can't decide whether or not this is a 100% genuine post by the man himself, but i just read this on the joof website...

quote:

unregistered posted 16-03-2003 20:11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear friends, I'm speechless when it comes to reading all those posts. I never expected so much support from you all. I barely know most people signing this petition, and from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank everyone for doing so. John, I never expected someone like you would take the time and the risk to post a petition about me. Thanks for reminding me I am part of a respectful and friendly community that knows rules and boundaries. I took the two last days to think about the situation. Lemme just remind you some facts. All artists putting out music expect to sell records. It's not all about money, it's much more about sharing the love we all have for music, whatever it is. For some reason, many people in our community tend to think sharing mp3's is cool. Of course it's really cool to be able to hear new tracks without having to pay for them, at least when you go out afterwards to buy all the records you like, and when you erase all the pieces of music you haven't bought. It's a karma thing. But in those times, it seems people don't even take the time to think like that. They can't see how much money producers like me spend a year for equipment, recording surfaces, extra software, etc... It's a shame. Everything I got from music got entirely invested in music: records, recording equipment, etc... If making music was just a way to me to buy expensive and luxe things (cars etc...), then I wouldn't stress about quality in my music. And you know all it's not the case. I care so much about it, that's why I considered quitting the business, and making music only for myself, as I think there is everyday less place for quality music in our world. The second reason is just the sequel to the first one. The loss of my second family, bonzai, put me in a pretty bad shape. I couldn't believe there was a future for the kind of music we all were trying to defend through the labels. So, my conclusion is, as long as I can do something to it, I will try to help music getting out of this situation. Music gave me so much, and you all gave me so much too, during the last 7 years. I can't give up now. It's not about money. It's all about the things every single producer/dj is fighting for. Quality, atmosphere in clubs, and a good community, based on a good vibe, that respects legitimate rules. I will keep you informed regarding what will happen in the next few days. I hope I can bring you good news. At least there's one thing I will keep on fighting for, that is music made with heart. Many people in the business deserve their fame because they put their entire hearts in it, I think about people like john, and also about my actual heroes (won't mention them again, just read my interviews on several websites). I hope I can put as much as they do in the future works of mine. I hope this doesn't read too complicated to you all. I will keep you all informed about the future. I have to thank everyone on this board again for their support through the years, and for the kind words I've read here. Talk to you soon Lolo

lateRZ,

barryfigiel

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trust me...its legit