quote:

Originally posted by King_Mack so basically its war then. there is no way saddam is going to leave, Bush knows this, he's just throwing in a bogus ultimatum

He's throwing out that ultimatum for the citizens. Of course he knows Saddam won't flee but the 48 hours are so that the people have time to leave.

quote:

Let me ask you a question....would YOU of removed Hitler if you could go back to 1933??..even though you know hundreds of innocents would die?...i would LOVE to know if you would....my bet is that you would not of....but lets see

Of course!

I'm sick of people comparing Saddam Hussein to Hitler - the situations are completely different. Before war was declared Hitler had forcefully occupied the Rhineland (the part of Germany bordering France that was "demilitarized" under the Versailles Treaty), formed militray alliances with Italy, Austria and Russia (Italy invaded Ethiopia soon after), invaded Czechoslovakia and was half-way to Poland before the UK and its allies abandoned the "appeasement" line.

In order for the comparison to work, then, Saddam Hussein:

1) Would need to forcibly reclaim the areas currently under UN/Allied protection/occupation.

2) Would need to form strong alliances with Iran and North Korea and have the world stand back while one of them marched through Africa virtually unopposed.

3) Would need to invade Kuwait again.

4) Would need to declare its intention to, and begin the process of, invading another country.


In addition to this, he would require a far superior army (in terms of troops, weapons and technology) to the two-bit operation he has now. Now if any one of these scenarios occurred (let alone all 4 in the case of Hitler) then war would be justified. I agree that Europe tried too hard to appease Hitler and it back-fired on them, but keep it in perspective: Saddam Hussein has been quiet and harmless (on the international scale anyway) for 12 years. Hitler spent six solid years war-mongering, forming military alliances and invading countries. I fail to see the comparison.

But while were on the topic of making-up bullshit connections between present day leaders and historical monsters, let's compare the similarities between Hitler and Bush II shall we?

1) Both possessed the world's largest military.

2) Both spent incredible amounts of money on the military prior to declaration of war.

3) Both were given "Enabling Acts" by parliament that allowed them declare war without the need to put a vote through parliament.

4) Both declared the need to invade and occupy a relatively defenseless nation to eliminate a perceived "threat" (Poland and Judaism / Iraq and terrorism).

5) Both were able to build up a strong national support for the war through the use of propoganda.

6) Both worked hard to form international military alliances to remove this common threat.

7) Both faced stern objections from Europe, yet in both cases Europe did nothing to intervene and/or prevent the invasion by any other means than "appeasement" and "negotiation".

8) Both withdrew from the League of Nations / UN just before embarking on their warpath.

9) Both had already invaded and occupied other nations before the international community stepped in to try and prevent further invasions.

10) Both acted in complete defiance of international law and international war treaties.


So there you have it.

For the record, I do not believe that George Bush is anything like Hitler, I'm merely pointing out the ridiculousness of George Bush attaching the same stigma to Saddam Hussein. Hitler was a very evil, very powerful man, and I doubt (and hope) that we will ever see anyone like him again.

So to answer your question tiesto14, yes I would have supported a war on Hitler and I would have supported it much earlier than it was declared (Czeckoslovakia should have been the very last breaking point). Fact is though, the comparisons between Saddam Hussein and Hitler are shallow and unfounded and Bush and Blair are insulting our intelligence by drawing the comparison.

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

http://komo1000news.com/audio/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3
anti war girl vs. iraqi citizen

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

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Originally posted by Renegade ...Besides, having seen the horrors of warfare for yourself, I should think that you'd be more sypathetic to the innocent civilians of Baghdad who are about to go through the same thing - only in Baghdad the war will go on for much longer, will cause much more destruction and will result in possibly one-hundred times more death. Do you not think that this is a situation at least as tragic as the events of 18 months ago?

Renegade, i suggest you read this!

quote:

FAMED NAZI HUNTER SIMON WIESENTHAL'S STATEMENT ON IMPENDING IRAQ WAR The Simon Wiesenthal Center today issued the following statement on behalf of famed Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal: "As a survivor of the Nazi Holocaust who lost 89 members of my family, I have experienced firsthand the horrors of war and bloodshed. I know that in any conflict many innocent lives will be lost. But history has taught us that the consequences of ignoring evil and terror pose an even greater risk for mankind. The world has confronted Saddam before, but for twelve years he has refused to listen. President George W. Bush, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, and Prime Minister Jose María Aznar of Spain, do not seek to conquer Iraq but rather to confront a dictator who has used weapons of mass destruction and committed genocide against his own people. I have spent a lifetime pursuing the perpetrators of evil, not for revenge, but in search of justice and in order to protect future generations from the horrors that I have lived through. My experience has taught me that you cannot wait indefinitely on dictators. Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933, but for six years the world did not act. Had he been taken seriously then, the lives of innocent millions may have been spared. We must remember that freedom is not a gift from heaven, we must fight for it every day."

But who's Simon Wiesenthal to understand the horro's of war anyway?!

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