hehe! its been a while since we've had one of these threads....

...the dates seem pretty accurate....don't forget the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin for his efforts to establish peace...

melech_mike.... could u tell us again what exactly u want to know??? or what you're not sure about???
keep in mind that....regardless of the facts, there are other issues that will be disagreed upon, including opinions and motives, due to the different frames of reference.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by tranced_out Dude calm the fuk down. First of all I apologize if my last post set ur panties on fire, but here are some facts which I hope will clears up some of the questions you asked.... 1845: The number of Jews in Palestine is about 12,000. 1897: The Zionist movement is started in Basel, Switzerland. Zionism's goal was to establish "for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law". 1917 November 2: The Balfour declaration, a letter by the foreign secretary Arthur James Balfour to the English Zionist leader lord Rothschild, gives support to the Zionist case. 1918-39: The Jews organize their own social and political institutions, which exercise much control over their own population. Hebrew language is fostered, and the Hebrew University is founded in Jerusalem. 1922: The League of Nations adopt the Balfour declaration, and leaves Britain in charge of Palestine, and in assisting the Jews in "reconstituting their national home in that country". Jews represent 11% of the population in Palestine with their 85,000, compared to the 670,000 Palestinians. 1930s: Large influx of Jews, frightened by persecution in Germany. New towns and villages were created, hundreds of kibbutzes founded. 1931: 175,000 Jews and 860,000 Arabs live in Palestine (17%). 1936: Arab revolts against the constant Jewish immigration, but there was no suppression by the British forces until 1939. 385,000 Jews and 980,000 Arabs live in Palestine (28%) by now. 1937: Great Britian suggests that Palestine should be divided into a Jewish and an Arab state. 1939: The British impose a stop on the Jewish immigration. AT this time 450,000 Jews and 1,060,000 Arabs live in Palestine (30%) 1945: With the ending of World War II, and the horrors of holocaust were laid open, Zionist demands on self-government increased. From now on, illegal immigration to Palestine was organized. 1947: UN takes control over Palestine. — November 29: A UN plan for dividing Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem as international zone, is presented. This plan was immediately met by violent protest from the Arabs. 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs live in Palestine (31%). 1948 May 14: The new Jewish state, State of Israel, is proclaimed by the Jewish Provisional State Council. Chaim Weizmann becomes president, and the Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion the new prime minister. The secret Jewish army, Haganah, is declared as the new army of Israel. — May 15: Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq join the Arab guerillas in fight against the Jews. 1948-51: Around 700,000 Jews immigrate to Israel. 1949 February 24: Peace in the Middle East. Egypt declares that the agreement on cease fire, is not an acceptance of the state of Israel. The Israeli territory has increased from the 15,500 km² that the UN-resolution of 1947 gave them, to 20,700 km². Gaza Strip becomes Egyptian, and the West Bank Jordanian. There had been 800,000 Arabs living in the area that now became Israel, and only 170,000 had been able to stay. The remaining hundreds of thousands, moved into refugee camps in neighboring countries. 1950: Due to the heavy immigration, the Israeli economy faces serious difficulties. Aid is provided by Jewish organizations around the world, and the US government. 1956: Israel attacks Egypt, and is joined by British and French troops. Israel is much motivated by the Egyptian blockade of ships calling at the Israeli port of Eilat. The British and the French are taking revenge after the Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal. The three countries had swift victories, but the UN, supported by both USA and the Soviet Union, intervened after few days. Towards the end of the year the three countries had left Sinai, but Israel still held forces in Gaza. 1957: Israel leaves Gaza, after USA had promised help to keep the Gulf of Aqaba open for ships calling at Israel. 1963: Ben Gurion resigns as prime minister and is succeeded by Levi Eshkol. 1967 June 5: Political and security tensions, with increase of Arab troops stationed along the Israeli borders, provokes Israel to a surprise attack on Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. — June 10: Seizure of battles on the Syrian front, the last battleground of the war that came to be called the Six-Day War. Israel has occupied a large strip of the Syrian Golan Heights, along all of the former border line, East Jerusalem and the West Bank which had been annexed by Jordan almost 20 years earlier, the Egyptian-occupied Gaza Strip, and the Egyptian territory of Sinai. About 1,5 million Arabs are now under Israeli administration. 1969: Golda Meir becomes new prime minister of Israel. 1972: 11 Israeli athletes are killed by Palestinian guerrilla in the Summer Olympics of Munich, Germany. 1973 October 6: Yom Kippur War, where Egypt and Syria attacks Israel in order to recapture territory occupied in 1967. Arab power had clearly increased since the last war, but after 3 weeks of fighting Israeli restores control. — Demands from the Israeli military costs so much that the budgets are exceeded to an extent that national economy suffers for years to come. 1974: With the ghost of the Yom Kippur War, and facing the defeat in the parliamentary elections, Golda Meir is not capable of establishing a new government, and resigns. — Yitzhak Rabin becomes new prime minister. 1977: When not being able to refute accusations on financial irregularities in the private economy, Rabin experiences a defeat in the parliamentary elections. — Menachim Begin becomes new prime minister. A period of even more deterioration of the economy starts, despite new politics from Begin's conservative government. — November 19: Visit to Jerusalem by the president of Egypt, Anwar as-Sadat, and the start of the peace process between Israel and Egypt. 1979 March 26: Camp David Agreement signed between Egypt and Israel. Israeli withdrawal from Sinai starts, and goes on for the next 3 years. The second part of the agreement, which dealt with autonomy for the Palestinians on Gaza Strip and the West Bank, is never observed from Israeli side. 1980: Knesset declares the united and complete Jerusalem as capital of Israel. 1981 June 7: Israel fighters bomb a nuclear reactor in Baghdad, Iraq, claiming that this was being used to produce nuclear weapons to be used against Israel. Second of all if you call me a 'kid' one more time i will personally come to where u live and bitch slap u back to the stone ages... _|_

I want to appologize in advance for a virtually ridiculous post, but I will now reply with something I've seen too fucking many times around here when I couldn't reply to laugh at;

Biased! Your post is biased! You have presented countless correct facts (actually I'd like to correct a few but can't be arsed)but they are all supporting just one side of the story, therefore I render your entire post useless and will not relate to it!

___________________
Check My Music

quote:

Originally posted by tranced_out Dude calm the fuk down. First of all I apologize if my last post set ur panties on fire, but here are some facts which I hope will clears up some of the questions you asked.... 1845: The number of Jews in Palestine is about 12,000. 1897: The Zionist movement is started in Basel, Switzerland. Zionism's goal was to establish "for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law". 1917 November 2: The Balfour declaration, a letter by the foreign secretary Arthur James Balfour to the English Zionist leader lord Rothschild, gives support to the Zionist case. 1918-39: The Jews organize their own social and political institutions, which exercise much control over their own population. Hebrew language is fostered, and the Hebrew University is founded in Jerusalem. 1922: The League of Nations adopt the Balfour declaration, and leaves Britain in charge of Palestine, and in assisting the Jews in "reconstituting their national home in that country". Jews represent 11% of the population in Palestine with their 85,000, compared to the 670,000 Palestinians. 1930s: Large influx of Jews, frightened by persecution in Germany. New towns and villages were created, hundreds of kibbutzes founded. 1931: 175,000 Jews and 860,000 Arabs live in Palestine (17%). 1936: Arab revolts against the constant Jewish immigration, but there was no suppression by the British forces until 1939. 385,000 Jews and 980,000 Arabs live in Palestine (28%) by now. 1937: Great Britian suggests that Palestine should be divided into a Jewish and an Arab state. 1939: The British impose a stop on the Jewish immigration. AT this time 450,000 Jews and 1,060,000 Arabs live in Palestine (30%) 1945: With the ending of World War II, and the horrors of holocaust were laid open, Zionist demands on self-government increased. From now on, illegal immigration to Palestine was organized. 1947: UN takes control over Palestine. — November 29: A UN plan for dividing Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem as international zone, is presented. This plan was immediately met by violent protest from the Arabs. 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs live in Palestine (31%). 1948 May 14: The new Jewish state, State of Israel, is proclaimed by the Jewish Provisional State Council. Chaim Weizmann becomes president, and the Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion the new prime minister. The secret Jewish army, Haganah, is declared as the new army of Israel. — May 15: Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq join the Arab guerillas in fight against the Jews. 1948-51: Around 700,000 Jews immigrate to Israel. 1949 February 24: Peace in the Middle East. Egypt declares that the agreement on cease fire, is not an acceptance of the state of Israel. The Israeli territory has increased from the 15,500 km² that the UN-resolution of 1947 gave them, to 20,700 km². Gaza Strip becomes Egyptian, and the West Bank Jordanian. There had been 800,000 Arabs living in the area that now became Israel, and only 170,000 had been able to stay. The remaining hundreds of thousands, moved into refugee camps in neighboring countries. 1950: Due to the heavy immigration, the Israeli economy faces serious difficulties. Aid is provided by Jewish organizations around the world, and the US government. 1956: Israel attacks Egypt, and is joined by British and French troops. Israel is much motivated by the Egyptian blockade of ships calling at the Israeli port of Eilat. The British and the French are taking revenge after the Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal. The three countries had swift victories, but the UN, supported by both USA and the Soviet Union, intervened after few days. Towards the end of the year the three countries had left Sinai, but Israel still held forces in Gaza. 1957: Israel leaves Gaza, after USA had promised help to keep the Gulf of Aqaba open for ships calling at Israel. 1963: Ben Gurion resigns as prime minister and is succeeded by Levi Eshkol. 1967 June 5: Political and security tensions, with increase of Arab troops stationed along the Israeli borders, provokes Israel to a surprise attack on Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. — June 10: Seizure of battles on the Syrian front, the last battleground of the war that came to be called the Six-Day War. Israel has occupied a large strip of the Syrian Golan Heights, along all of the former border line, East Jerusalem and the West Bank which had been annexed by Jordan almost 20 years earlier, the Egyptian-occupied Gaza Strip, and the Egyptian territory of Sinai. About 1,5 million Arabs are now under Israeli administration. 1969: Golda Meir becomes new prime minister of Israel. 1972: 11 Israeli athletes are killed by Palestinian guerrilla in the Summer Olympics of Munich, Germany. 1973 October 6: Yom Kippur War, where Egypt and Syria attacks Israel in order to recapture territory occupied in 1967. Arab power had clearly increased since the last war, but after 3 weeks of fighting Israeli restores control. — Demands from the Israeli military costs so much that the budgets are exceeded to an extent that national economy suffers for years to come. 1974: With the ghost of the Yom Kippur War, and facing the defeat in the parliamentary elections, Golda Meir is not capable of establishing a new government, and resigns. — Yitzhak Rabin becomes new prime minister. 1977: When not being able to refute accusations on financial irregularities in the private economy, Rabin experiences a defeat in the parliamentary elections. — Menachim Begin becomes new prime minister. A period of even more deterioration of the economy starts, despite new politics from Begin's conservative government. — November 19: Visit to Jerusalem by the president of Egypt, Anwar as-Sadat, and the start of the peace process between Israel and Egypt. 1979 March 26: Camp David Agreement signed between Egypt and Israel. Israeli withdrawal from Sinai starts, and goes on for the next 3 years. The second part of the agreement, which dealt with autonomy for the Palestinians on Gaza Strip and the West Bank, is never observed from Israeli side. 1980: Knesset declares the united and complete Jerusalem as capital of Israel. 1981 June 7: Israel fighters bomb a nuclear reactor in Baghdad, Iraq, claiming that this was being used to produce nuclear weapons to be used against Israel. Second of all if you call me a 'kid' one more time i will personally come to where u live and bitch slap u back to the stone ages... _|_

That whole post was a waste of time...KID!
I'm glad to see you know how to copy and paste material from a pro-Arab source! Don't you just love bias

Some of you try really hard to get off topic, but if you concentrate hard enough, perhaps you will see that not one of the points you made answered any of my questions.
How do you or any of the 'genius’s' who posted after and in support of you figure that post answered:

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike If Israel is "occupying" territories today, who was occupying them until 1967? If the West Bank and Gaza belong to "Palestinians", why were they under the control of Jordan and Egypt until June 5, 1967? If Arab "Palestinians" just want their own state, why didn't they ask for it before 1967? Why is it, according to many articles written in 1967, that when the Arabs talked about "occupied territories", they meant all of Israel?

---------------------------------
So many fuckin bias's in you post. The post doesn't deserve the credit it's getting.

quote:

— May 15: Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq join the Arab guerillas in fight against the Jews.

Was this not a full out war declared and initiated by the Arab nations against Israel? Don't you think whoever it was who wrote these points, didn't want to put so much emphasis on this point for the simple reason of belittling it's importance.

quote:

There had been 800,000 Arabs living in the area that now became Israel, and only 170,000 had been able to stay. The remaining hundreds of thousands, moved into refugee camps in neighboring countries.

Who asked them to leave? Why don't your points say that it was the Arab nations who surrounded Israel who asked these Arab's to leave Israel’s borders. They promised them that after Israel is annihilated by their armies, all those Arabs can go back to Israel and claim whatever land they want.

1956 - Israel attacks Egypt.... are you being serious. The way that point is presented is so awfully biased. If you look for other sources besides this one you will see what the problem in this post is (besides of course not answering the questions posed).

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Melech-mike..... you just got BITCH SLAPPED!!!!! As for me.. i am being bombarded with work seeing that its march crunch time and profs are pounding us with papers. So, once my exams are done... i would be happy to restart this thread and help you answer questions that have obviously been blocked by your extremely stupid Zionist mind.

You'll be done exams with 3 weeks, as will I.
I will hold you on your word and make sure the questions i put forth, you will answer.
I have a feeling the only bitch slaps around here will be from your mother beating you for talking so much shit.

quote:

Originally posted by ZinG I just woke up Thank you dude now that u mentioned the Specific dates! melech_mike now let's end this subject since it's going nowhere Don't you think everyone wants peace at the end? Where are you going with your questions about Palestine & Israel, i don't think anyone wanna fight about it anymore. Make a fuckin treaty and live in peace so stop bitcihng.

Is this guy a character or what!
I'm sorry to inform you but these "specific dates" don’t answer anything. This subject is going nowhere because people like you are sidestepping the questions and spewing out ridiculous posts. Stay on track and don’t run away from answering these questions.

You claim to have the answers, so give them to us!!!

I don’t think that everyone wants peace in the end. The only end for Arafat and his al-aqsa martyrs brigade, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and many others is the total destruction of Israel - as stated in many of their charter's.
If Arafat wanted peace, he would have showed the world within his 30+ years as chairman.
If he wanted peace he would have accomplished something with the 5 Israeli Prime Minister's who have come and gone with no luck of getting this man to really think peace!

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori I want to appologize in advance for a virtually ridiculous post, but I will now reply with something I've seen too fucking many times around here when I couldn't reply to laugh at; Biased! Your post is biased! You have presented countless correct facts (actually I'd like to correct a few but can't be arsed)but they are all supporting just one side of the story, therefore I render your entire post useless and will not relate to it!

100%!!!!!!!!!!!

___________________
Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

Last edited by melech_mike on Mar-24-2003 at 17:23

quote:

Originally posted by tranced_out Dude calm the fuk down. First of all I apologize if my last post set ur panties on fire, but here are some facts which I hope will clears up some of the questions you asked.... 1845: The number of Jews in Palestine is about 12,000.

yes that is the number of jews living there at the time, but do you know the total inhabitants of the area? it wasnt a lot more then 100,000. that means the jews made up abuot 10% of the population which is definetly a considerable amount

quote:

1897: The Zionist movement is started in Basel, Switzerland. Zionism's goal was to establish "for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law".

nothing wrong with that? i wish more movements would adapt similar peaceful movements

quote:

1917 November 2: The Balfour declaration, a letter by the foreign secretary Arthur James Balfour to the English Zionist leader lord Rothschild, gives support to the Zionist case.

here's what it says:
"Her Majesty's Government views with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done whcih may predjudice the civil and religious rights of exsisting non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in other countries."

quote:

1918-39: The Jews organize their own social and political institutions, which exercise much control over their own population. Hebrew language is fostered, and the Hebrew University is founded in Jerusalem. 1922: The League of Nations adopt the Balfour declaration, and leaves Britain in charge of Palestine, and in assisting the Jews in "reconstituting their national home in that country". Jews represent 11% of the population in Palestine with their 85,000, compared to the 670,000 Palestinians. 1930s: Large influx of Jews, frightened by persecution in Germany. New towns and villages were created, hundreds of kibbutzes founded. 1931: 175,000 Jews and 860,000 Arabs live in Palestine (17%).

nothing wrong so far
worth mentioning that as well as jew immagrating to israel (which was the point of the Balfour declaration, no?) the arab population increased 120% between 1922 and 1947. most of this growth took place in the major cities (haifa, jerusalem and jaffa), not outside farm land.

quote:

1936: Arab revolts against the constant Jewish immigration, but there was no suppression by the British forces until 1939. 385,000 Jews and 980,000 Arabs live in Palestine (28%) by now.

revolts as in violence? the beginning of terrorism? shame it could have not all started by peaceful means. but beside that the squads of 'fedayeen' were organized by Haj Amin el-Husseini to terrorize the jews in 1921

quote:

1937: Great Britian suggests that Palestine should be divided into a Jewish and an Arab state.

really? im curious to know where they said that... the only thing i know that came out of the brits officially in 1937 was the peel commission which basicly said that "the shortfall of land is due less to the amount of land aquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population"

quote:

1939: The British impose a stop on the Jewish immigration. AT this time 450,000 Jews and 1,060,000 Arabs live in Palestine (30%)

wasnt that going agianst what the balfour papers invisioned?

quote:

1945: With the ending of World War II, and the horrors of holocaust were laid open, Zionist demands on self-government increased. From now on, illegal immigration to Palestine was organized. 1947: UN takes control over Palestine. — November 29: A UN plan for dividing Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem as international zone, is presented. This plan was immediately met by violent protest from the Arabs. 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs live in Palestine (31%). 1948 May 14: The new Jewish state, State of Israel, is proclaimed by the Jewish Provisional State Council. Chaim Weizmann becomes president, and the Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion the new prime minister. The secret Jewish army, Haganah, is declared as the new army of Israel. — May 15: Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq join the Arab guerillas in fight against the Jews. 1948-51: Around 700,000 Jews immigrate to Israel.

good so far

quote:

1949 February 24: Peace in the Middle East. Egypt declares that the agreement on cease fire, is not an acceptance of the state of Israel. The Israeli territory has increased from the 15,500 km² that the UN-resolution of 1947 gave them, to 20,700 km². Gaza Strip becomes Egyptian, and the West Bank Jordanian. There had been 800,000 Arabs living in the area that now became Israel, and only 170,000 had been able to stay. The remaining hundreds of thousands, moved into refugee camps in neighboring countries.

i like the fairness in the last sentence. the moved (of their own will) into refugee camps, not forced to move

quote:

1950: Due to the heavy immigration, the Israeli economy faces serious difficulties. Aid is provided by Jewish organizations around the world, and the US government. 1956: Israel attacks Egypt, and is joined by British and French troops. Israel is much motivated by the Egyptian blockade of ships calling at the Israeli port of Eilat. The British and the French are taking revenge after the Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal. The three countries had swift victories, but the UN, supported by both USA and the Soviet Union, intervened after few days. Towards the end of the year the three countries had left Sinai, but Israel still held forces in Gaza. 1957: Israel leaves Gaza, after USA had promised help to keep the Gulf of Aqaba open for ships calling at Israel.

blocking off shipping routs and ports is a declaration of war... thus Egypt initiated the war.

quote:

1963: Ben Gurion resigns as prime minister and is succeeded by Levi Eshkol. 1967 June 5: Political and security tensions, with increase of Arab troops stationed along the Israeli borders, provokes Israel to a surprise attack on Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. — June 10: Seizure of battles on the Syrian front, the last battleground of the war that came to be called the Six-Day War. Israel has occupied a large strip of the Syrian Golan Heights, along all of the former border line, East Jerusalem and the West Bank which had been annexed by Jordan almost 20 years earlier, the Egyptian-occupied Gaza Strip, and the Egyptian territory of Sinai. About 1,5 million Arabs are now under Israeli administration. 1969: Golda Meir becomes new prime minister of Israel. 1972: 11 Israeli athletes are killed by Palestinian guerrilla in the Summer Olympics of Munich, Germany. 1973 October 6: Yom Kippur War, where Egypt and Syria attacks Israel in order to recapture territory occupied in 1967. Arab power had clearly increased since the last war, but after 3 weeks of fighting Israeli restores control. — Demands from the Israeli military costs so much that the budgets are exceeded to an extent that national economy suffers for years to come. 1974: With the ghost of the Yom Kippur War, and facing the defeat in the parliamentary elections, Golda Meir is not capable of establishing a new government, and resigns. — Yitzhak Rabin becomes new prime minister. 1977: When not being able to refute accusations on financial irregularities in the private economy, Rabin experiences a defeat in the parliamentary elections. — Menachim Begin becomes new prime minister. A period of even more deterioration of the economy starts, despite new politics from Begin's conservative government. — November 19: Visit to Jerusalem by the president of Egypt, Anwar as-Sadat, and the start of the peace process between Israel and Egypt. 1979 March 26: Camp David Agreement signed between Egypt and Israel. Israeli withdrawal from Sinai starts, and goes on for the next 3 years. The second part of the agreement, which dealt with autonomy for the Palestinians on Gaza Strip and the West Bank, is never observed from Israeli side.

ok i skipped a lot but the last one about the camp david agreement regarding the palestinians is a lie. as part of the camp david negotiations israel proposed an autonomy plan to grant palestinians greater control over thier affairs. The Palestinians rejected autonomy as an option, holding out hope for the creation of a palestinian state. so it was not israel who didnt observe it but rather the palestinians who rejected it

quote:

1980: Knesset declares the united and complete Jerusalem as capital of Israel. 1981 June 7: Israel fighters bomb a nuclear reactor in Baghdad, Iraq, claiming that this was being used to produce nuclear weapons to be used against Israel.

I'm actually quite proud of that last one.... image saddam with nukes

___________________
If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

quote:

Originally posted by tranced_out Dude calm the fuk down. First of all I apologize if my last post set ur panties on fire, but here are some facts which I hope will clears up some of the questions you asked.... 1845: The number of Jews in Palestine is about 12,000.

yes that is the number of jews living there at the time, but do you know the total inhabitants of the area? it wasnt a lot more then 100,000. that means the jews made up abuot 10% of the population which is definetly a considerable amount

quote:

1897: The Zionist movement is started in Basel, Switzerland. Zionism's goal was to establish "for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law".

nothing wrong with that? i wish more movements would adapt similar peaceful movements

quote:

1917 November 2: The Balfour declaration, a letter by the foreign secretary Arthur James Balfour to the English Zionist leader lord Rothschild, gives support to the Zionist case.

here's what it says:
"Her Majesty's Government views with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done whcih may predjudice the civil and religious rights of exsisting non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in other countries."

quote:

1918-39: The Jews organize their own social and political institutions, which exercise much control over their own population. Hebrew language is fostered, and the Hebrew University is founded in Jerusalem. 1922: The League of Nations adopt the Balfour declaration, and leaves Britain in charge of Palestine, and in assisting the Jews in "reconstituting their national home in that country". Jews represent 11% of the population in Palestine with their 85,000, compared to the 670,000 Palestinians. 1930s: Large influx of Jews, frightened by persecution in Germany. New towns and villages were created, hundreds of kibbutzes founded. 1931: 175,000 Jews and 860,000 Arabs live in Palestine (17%).

nothing wrong so far
worth mentioning that as well as jew immagrating to israel (which was the point of the Balfour declaration, no?) the arab population increased 120% between 1922 and 1947. most of this growth took place in the major cities (haifa, jerusalem and jaffa), not outside farm land.

quote:

1936: Arab revolts against the constant Jewish immigration, but there was no suppression by the British forces until 1939. 385,000 Jews and 980,000 Arabs live in Palestine (28%) by now.

revolts as in violence? the beginning of terrorism? shame it could have not all started by peaceful means. but beside that the squads of 'fedayeen' were organized by Haj Amin el-Husseini to terrorize the jews in 1921

quote:

1937: Great Britian suggests that Palestine should be divided into a Jewish and an Arab state.

really? im curious to know where they said that... the only thing i know that came out of the brits officially in 1937 was the peel commission which basicly said that "the shortfall of land is due less to the amount of land aquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population"

quote:

1939: The British impose a stop on the Jewish immigration. AT this time 450,000 Jews and 1,060,000 Arabs live in Palestine (30%)

wasnt that going agianst what the balfour papers invisioned?

quote:

1945: With the ending of World War II, and the horrors of holocaust were laid open, Zionist demands on self-government increased. From now on, illegal immigration to Palestine was organized. 1947: UN takes control over Palestine. — November 29: A UN plan for dividing Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem as international zone, is presented. This plan was immediately met by violent protest from the Arabs. 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs live in Palestine (31%). 1948 May 14: The new Jewish state, State of Israel, is proclaimed by the Jewish Provisional State Council. Chaim Weizmann becomes president, and the Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion the new prime minister. The secret Jewish army, Haganah, is declared as the new army of Israel. — May 15: Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq join the Arab guerillas in fight against the Jews. 1948-51: Around 700,000 Jews immigrate to Israel.

good so far

quote:

1949 February 24: Peace in the Middle East. Egypt declares that the agreement on cease fire, is not an acceptance of the state of Israel. The Israeli territory has increased from the 15,500 km² that the UN-resolution of 1947 gave them, to 20,700 km². Gaza Strip becomes Egyptian, and the West Bank Jordanian. There had been 800,000 Arabs living in the area that now became Israel, and only 170,000 had been able to stay. The remaining hundreds of thousands, moved into refugee camps in neighboring countries.

i like the fairness in the last sentence. the moved (of their own will) into refugee camps, not forced to move

quote:

1950: Due to the heavy immigration, the Israeli economy faces serious difficulties. Aid is provided by Jewish organizations around the world, and the US government. 1956: Israel attacks Egypt, and is joined by British and French troops. Israel is much motivated by the Egyptian blockade of ships calling at the Israeli port of Eilat. The British and the French are taking revenge after the Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal. The three countries had swift victories, but the UN, supported by both USA and the Soviet Union, intervened after few days. Towards the end of the year the three countries had left Sinai, but Israel still held forces in Gaza. 1957: Israel leaves Gaza, after USA had promised help to keep the Gulf of Aqaba open for ships calling at Israel.

blocking off shipping routs and ports is a declaration of war... thus Egypt initiated the war.

quote:

1963: Ben Gurion resigns as prime minister and is succeeded by Levi Eshkol. 1967 June 5: Political and security tensions, with increase of Arab troops stationed along the Israeli borders, provokes Israel to a surprise attack on Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. — June 10: Seizure of battles on the Syrian front, the last battleground of the war that came to be called the Six-Day War. Israel has occupied a large strip of the Syrian Golan Heights, along all of the former border line, East Jerusalem and the West Bank which had been annexed by Jordan almost 20 years earlier, the Egyptian-occupied Gaza Strip, and the Egyptian territory of Sinai. About 1,5 million Arabs are now under Israeli administration. 1969: Golda Meir becomes new prime minister of Israel. 1972: 11 Israeli athletes are killed by Palestinian guerrilla in the Summer Olympics of Munich, Germany. 1973 October 6: Yom Kippur War, where Egypt and Syria attacks Israel in order to recapture territory occupied in 1967. Arab power had clearly increased since the last war, but after 3 weeks of fighting Israeli restores control. — Demands from the Israeli military costs so much that the budgets are exceeded to an extent that national economy suffers for years to come. 1974: With the ghost of the Yom Kippur War, and facing the defeat in the parliamentary elections, Golda Meir is not capable of establishing a new government, and resigns. — Yitzhak Rabin becomes new prime minister. 1977: When not being able to refute accusations on financial irregularities in the private economy, Rabin experiences a defeat in the parliamentary elections. — Menachim Begin becomes new prime minister. A period of even more deterioration of the economy starts, despite new politics from Begin's conservative government. — November 19: Visit to Jerusalem by the president of Egypt, Anwar as-Sadat, and the start of the peace process between Israel and Egypt. 1979 March 26: Camp David Agreement signed between Egypt and Israel. Israeli withdrawal from Sinai starts, and goes on for the next 3 years. The second part of the agreement, which dealt with autonomy for the Palestinians on Gaza Strip and the West Bank, is never observed from Israeli side.

ok i skipped a lot but the last one about the camp david agreement regarding the palestinians is a lie. as part of the camp david negotiations israel proposed an autonomy plan to grant palestinians greater control over thier affairs. The Palestinians rejected autonomy as an option, holding out hope for the creation of a palestinian state. so it was not israel who didnt observe it but rather the palestinians who rejected it

quote:

1980: Knesset declares the united and complete Jerusalem as capital of Israel. 1981 June 7: Israel fighters bomb a nuclear reactor in Baghdad, Iraq, claiming that this was being used to produce nuclear weapons to be used against Israel.

I'm actually quite proud of that last one.... image saddam with nukes

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

[quote] blocking off shipping routs and ports is a declaration of war... thus Egypt initiated the war. [\quote]

its egypts own canal..and they have the right to nationalize it..that doesnt mean or should lead to war.

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Originally posted by Izzy I'm actually quite proud of that last one.... image saddam with nukes

As am I! Any Israeli should be proud of the IDF and IAF!

I'm glad your posting again Izzy. Your knowledge helps these forums greatly!

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

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Originally posted by tranceaholic [quote] blocking off shipping routs and ports is a declaration of war... thus Egypt initiated the war. [\quote] its egypts own canal..and they have the right to nationalize it..that doesnt mean or should lead to war.

I'm also happy to see that your back and posting as well!
Perhaps you could start by addressing the questions posed in the opening post of this thread!

Thanks!

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic [quote] blocking off shipping routs and ports is a declaration of war... thus Egypt initiated the war. [\quote] its egypts own canal..and they have the right to nationalize it..that doesnt mean or should lead to war.

firstly check out my reply at http://tester.tranceaddict.com/foru...21&pagenumber=6

secondly, i was refering to the blockade of the gulf of aqaba to israeli shipping - that is undeniably an act of war.
the red sea is international water (as evident by the many armed and civilian shipcrafts that sail through). by blockading an entire gulf:

egypt successfully disconnected israel's port of eilat. Israel then went to war in order to free/liberate these shipping routes

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

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Originally posted by Izzy yes that is the number of jews living there at the time, but do you know the total inhabitants of the area? it wasnt a lot more then 100,000. that means the jews made up abuot 10% of the population which is definetly a considerable amount

I would also like to point out that that was the only quote where only the Jewish population was mentioned, without saying out of how much... Since you were conviently persistant in stating the percentage of Jews in the other quotes, I suggest you being biased... Or the source you copy-pasted this from.

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Originally posted by Izzy nothing wrong with that?

Actually there is ... The Zionist movement was already in action well in the early 19th century, it was only in 1897 when the first Zionist Congress took place in Bazel... Movements such as BILU, Favours of Zion and The Favour Of Zion were already active during the 5th to 8th decades of that century...

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Originally posted by Izzy revolts as in violence? the beginning of terrorism? shame it could have not all started by peaceful means. but beside that the squads of 'fedayeen' were organized by Haj Amin el-Husseini to terrorize the jews in 1921

The 1920, 1921 and 1929 revolts were all arranged by Arab religous leaders and were solely based on hatred towards the Jews (Notice that these days it more anti-Zionism) and on the religous differences(!).
Cities where Jews and Muslims leaved peacefully for centuries such as the now infamous city of Hebron were torn apart as hundreads of furious mobs murdered families of Jews in these revolts.
They say terror is no way to achieve your goals these days... Some say it wasn't a way in those days either - Well then, how comes each of those revolts led to an official reduction of permitted Jew imigration licenses per-year on the British side?

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Originally posted by Izzy wasnt that going agianst what the balfour papers invisioned?

The Balfour statement is an ingenously written document, it was written as a reply to Haim Wizeman request for aid from the British government in establishing a Jewish state... We've had a short lesson taught to us when analyzing both documents - And you can practically see how each specific request is turned into a much more hazed, less clear agreement on the government's side... Hence stood the option of limitating the Jew imigration, as it leaves the local arabs less places to work at.

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Originally posted by Izzy ok i skipped a lot but the last one about the camp david agreement regarding the palestinians is a lie. as part of the camp david negotiations israel proposed an autonomy plan to grant palestinians greater control over thier affairs. The Palestinians rejected autonomy as an option, holding out hope for the creation of a palestinian state. so it was not israel who didnt observe it but rather the palestinians who rejected it

In addition, prior to the establishment of the British mandate in Israel and the forming of the Israeli Agency (A form of Jewish-Government-Under-British-Rule) , the Arabs were repeatedly allowed and even asked by several of the local British (One of the Israelis translate - ðöéá ) to form their own Arab Agency or many other forms of official organizations, yet they refused always, seeing as that meant willingness to accept the existance of Jews in the land.

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Check My Music

Last edited by oDrori on Mar-25-2003 at 21:49

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Originally posted by melech_mike I'm also happy to see that your back and posting as well! Perhaps you could start by addressing the questions posed in the opening post of this thread! Thanks!

will get to them right away my friend mike..its not easy putting a reply in this forum..as soon as i gather all the info i want will post