Some Coppers on that terrible day won compensation, whilst the bereaved families are still waiting...

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• TRACKS FOR GRAPE PICKING
• TRACKS WHEN YOU HAVE GLITTER STUCK ALL OVER YOU

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Originally posted by chesco Celtic/Rangers are nothing when it comes to the rome derby. I am a celtic supporter myself and a lot of the banter that goes on is just banter and that's it, however I agree you do always get some fanny that wants to take it one step too far. The last few old firm encounters have been fairly mild manared. If you want football hooliganism of the highest order visit the lazio ultras. They have a whole stand to themselves in the olympic stadium, and they are evil ****s. They take there rioting very seriously. Months before the games they are creating 40ft banners to incite racial hatred and provoke the other fans. I watched a program about it, and it showed you a roma fans car driving thru' the part of town where they meet before games. They didn't even bother to pull the guy and girl out, they just smashed the window and set the car a blaze. These are full blown riots in the town, they are organised. your not talking about a "firm" of 20 to 30 here, your talking a whole stadium full of nazi lovers hungry for blood. 1000's of people rioting every time this game comes along. Now who was it didn't want to class these football hooligans as scum. By the way, a while back now, there was a young celtic lad of 15 years. He was minding his own business coming home from the game. Walks past a rangers pub and gets stabbed to death cos he had a celtic scarf on after the game. This kid went to a private school, he was a smart kid and never in any trouble. And thats what he gets for supporting a differnt team. It's actually really quite sad.

The Lazio fans are indeed scum. As I said earlier their hooligans mingle with the top brass at Lazio and get special entry, and their players speak out in support about the nazi slogans (remember Di Canio?).

UEFA really need to crack down on Italian hooliganism because Italy aren't doing much about it themselves. I personally think Britain have come a long way since the 70s and 80s and we do not get any encouragement for that. One is left with the question 'what will it take before UEFA act'. Another Heysel? And even then, will the Italians get the same 5 year ban that all English clubs recieved? I doubt it.

Fantastic replies guys, thanks!!!

I am really shocked by the Italian hooligans. Esp. Lazio. It is sickening that the team would endorse such behaviour.

When Newcastle recently played Inter Milan in the San Siro stadium the whole affair was a hideous farce from beginning to finish, both on and off the pitch it was sickening.

Their fans were shite, they didn't chant they just whistled for 90 minutes incessantly like a bunch of children. And at what? Just about the most appalling display of play-acting and savage tackling I have ever seen in the game of football. Inter Milan had a weak side out and this game was as crucial as it comes for both sides, and for 90 minutes they were absolutely ridiculous, the portuguese men 'officiating' the game were particularly lenient towards their portuguese buddy Conceicao, whose diving was laughable at times, we're talking Rivaldo x 10. Off the pitch it was just as farcical, cowardly Italian supporters were literally urinating on the 10,000 Newcastle supporters in the tier below and throwing down all manner of items, including a distress flare. Police just stood and watched the whole thing, their hands in their pockets. UEFA investigated the whole farce, including alleged racism aimed at Newcastle's black players, and cleared Inter Milan of everything.

On and off the pitch the Italian league just stinks. Lots of quality there but there's as much concentration on rule-bending as there is football, and they have earned themselves a reputation as play-acters throughout Europe.

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I don't imagine Italy hosting the World Cup anytime soon with a reputation like that.

Actually I could.

It's nothing to do with italy itself. you don't get these hooligans at international matches, it's very much a club thing, whereas with england a lot of people have tagged along with country.

It's actually quite smart when you think about it, cos nobody suspects italians to be footy hooligans, wheras because the english fans cos a lot of trouble around the world when they travel to see england play, then the "english hooligans" are seen worldwide wheras italians are only seen nation wide leaving the rest of the world to think only good things about italian football.

Well they haven't been punished as heavily as England, noone has. As Xavier explained earlier, Heysel was an incident in 1985 when Liverpool and Juventus supporters clashed in Brussels. When Liverpool supporters charged for the Juve supporters a wall collapsed onto the Juventus fans leaving 39 dead.

UEFA's reaction to this was severe: a 5 year ban on all English clubs from playing in any European football! All because of the actions of one English club. England could not appeal against this decision. After 5 years England had to earn it's places in the Europe again year on year, and we now have 4 places in the Champions League every year (the maximum).

If you look at places like Italy, Turkey, and much of Eastern Europe some of these games are like warzones but in UEFA's eyes the England fans will always be the baddies

Don't get me wrong, England fans can be very disrespectful; they get very drunk, invade your city by the thousands days or weeks before the match, insult your women, wipe their arses with your national flag in the middle of the city and piss on it, and chant provocative songs all night long. Next morning they're puking all over your car. The English fans are not renowned for their cultural sensitivity let's just say. Yes this is provocative, and it probably explains why there is trouble everywhere England goes, but aren't the people who rise to it just as guilty? You can't justify murdering someone just because he made a racist joke or said something rude about your wife, it's not going to cut it in the courts.

I don't know, perhaps I'm biased, but I sense an anti-English bias among UEFA. Surely they must know what's going on in the rest of Europe? In Georgia's last game a few weeks ago one of their fans threw a pen-knife at an Irish player, narrowly missing him, and later threw a glass bottle. Could you imagine UEFA's response if that was an English crowd?

Italy hosted the world cup in 1990 btw, so it should be a while before they host again anyway. Italia 90 was characterised by the violence of English supporters but particularly the ruthless methods employed by Italian police in combating this problem. You might hear football fans sometimes describe police for a certain game as being dressed "italia style". Basically they are referring to the riot police of 'Italia 90'.

English fans and hooligans travel, and so get a reputation for themselves. There are worse hooligans out there but they don't travel. As chesco said it's a club level thing in places like Italy. When Inter Milan came here I never saw any Italian fans in the city. When Newcastle went to play in Milan for the return game 10,000 Newcastle fans went, many without tickets.

Last edited by evil_bastard on Apr-15-2003 at 22:56

England fans that riot must learn something. they are stupid. they give their whole country a bad name, when really its maybe only a few hundred or a few thousand who are causing the trouble.

What i'm trying to get at is the fact because this trouble is happening at international matches everybody sees it, but turkish, italian or spanish football fans by in large keep fighting to the club matches, which are only usually seen by people within that country.

England fans need to take a leaf out the tartan armys book. get as drunk as fuck, make a complete arse of yourself wearing and mainly enjoy the culture of whatever country it may be. instead of fighting.

I realise i am generalising here, but until they weed out those hardcore "supporters" england will always be seen as the hooligans of world football, which I myself do not see fair either.

By the way i get the impression italian police are always heavy hande and not just on england fans. personally i love it.

I agree with what your saying Chesco that it gets noticed more in International matches then Domestic League games or cup games.

International games are paid more attention to but what I think happens why people kick off a lot at international matches is for an example when you have 10,000 - 30,000 fans from your country there and 1000 to 500 hardcore hooligans are there from your country, everyone is drinking, the police in the country your visiting aren't the most friendly they make a lot of people paranoid, you have a few drinks your a bit drunk go to match, the rival country provoke your people by throwing coins and taunting them, some fights break out the police charge in beating your fellow countrymen up. More then likely your going to join in because you've had a few drinks or feel you have to protect yourself and what it leads to is next international game you go to, or people who saw the trouble on tv go its going to leave people a bit jumpy and feel everyones against them when visting an international game abroad.

What don't help I think aswell and I'm not pointing fingers at particular countries, whenever England play and there is fights between them a rival countries your always guarenteed its a couple of countries joining up with each other, like when England rioted with the Germans in Belgium in 2000. A lot of people didn't know that some other fans where involved in incidents earlier in that day before that massive ruck in that square kicked off in particular Turkish fans, most which were turkish people living in Belgium were stirring shit that day, I remember seeing this programme which had footage from Charloi (or whatever the place is called). A couple of pockets of England fans where drunk and singing and being loud but not aggressive at all they weren't starting with the locals and seemed to be merry, one bloke standing outside this pub was a bit drunk shouting, and next thing some turk runs along and twats him around the head with some nightstick type thing and runs off, however he got caught by one of the blokes mate, and the hit off the nightstick didn't bring the bloke down and they gave the turkish bloke a shoeing. Now if you ask me that Turkish guy deserved a kicking because that is what I call uncalled for stuff like that just provakes more trouble.

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The Italian police weren't heavy handed to their own fans when Newcastle played Inter. Their fans were above ours in the curva south of the San Siro, and they were throwing bottles of piss, and some just pissing over the tier onto people's heads. Others threw coins, bottles, a distress flare, anything they could get their hands on. Why? Because they could get away with it. The police did absolutely nothing.

It's easy to blame the English fans and you are right that some of them just plain don't give a fuck about anyone's culture. However, I think this culture among England fans is partly because noone will cut us any slack. Whether well or badly behaved we are looked on with suspicion wherever we go and some of our fans just think "fuck this, what a bunch of tossers" and give up trying.

If people give English fans a break they will realise that some of us are genuinely interested in other cultures and aren't just racist scumbags. When people prejudge the English, why be shocked when we return the favour?

Sorry, have been offline for 10 days or so, so haven't get up to date with this thread. Can't really be arsed to read in detail every line submitted but have glanced over the 3 pages so far......

Can't help but be amused by talk of the Italian so-called 'hooligans'. There's no doubt that there's more violence inside Italian Serie A grounds than any other top league in Europe. Not sure whether this is indicative of utterly shit Italian police who just cannot get a grip or the corruption of Italian Football where the mafia....well I'm not even gonna start, but we all know what I'm on about.

My point is this.......there's no doubt the wops - bless their little hearts, are passionate about the beautiful game. They love their football and they like a little ruck - IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!!! They've pissed on (literally) every opponent to come to their country in European action, but will they come for the return leg?? Will they fuck!! And this is not the biased opinion of some English xenophobe - it's an opion that's shared by the Dutch, Germans, Scots, and anyone else worth their steel. Italian clubs bring fuck all away from home, and even less with their national team. In the league table of troublemakers and firms they are rooted firmly at the botom, well below the likes of Poland and Greece. So they can continue to kick it off in their silly little Juventus vs. Torino, Inter vs. AC Milan derbies. We're all watching......and we're all still waiting......because we know you'd get turned over by Torquay.