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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced you won't believe it but this exact thing happened to a friend of a friend of mine. The shit is still going down.

lol no way! That's crazy.

Awesome analogy digi.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Oh goody, I love the analogy game. Let's try a new one: After searching for a couple of months in peak season, you and a few of your good buddies finally find a decent apartment in downtown Toronto for rent. You sign the lease and move in. It's in OK condition but you have to get a lot of repairs done. Other than that, everything is super for about a month. Then the next day there's a couple of guys waiting at your door; they say they had some friends that were supposed to be moving in but had to wait until their old lease was up and that you're going to have to leave. You say hey, sorry guys, but this is the first I've heard of it, and you should've said something to me before I signed the lease, and we kind of like this place, and besides, I really don't think it's up to you guys because you don't own the building. A couple of hours later you're just getting back from your grocery shopping and there's an angry mob at your door. Not realizing that two of your buddies are 3rd-degree black belts, they start a fight and subsequently get their asses whipped. You all tell the landlord what happened and he evicts them. You have some other friends that are now in the market so you tell them about the vacant apartment. They move in, everybody's happy. Except it turns out that the old gang moved in on the floor below you and started telling everybody how you whipped their asses and forced them out, so a few weeks later an even bigger mob shows up with knives, but you aren't stupid, you saw this coming and started stocking up on baseball bats a week ago, and you call your friends from down the hall to help out and together you once again whip their asses and have them thrown out. Couple of days later you're talking to some more distant friends, acquaintances really, but you tell them what happened and they say hey, we actually just started looking for a place with some of our friends but we want to stay together, and you say that's great because they actually just evicted two tenants and you can both move in. After a few more rounds of this, it's hard to remember anymore how it started, but everybody's in pretty rough shape physically and psychologically, so a bunch of you decide to go for drinks, talk things over. Everyone agrees firstmost that the feud has got to stop, but the devil's in the details. At the end they say look, we don't care anymore, our friends already found a different apartment, sorry for all the shit we caused and could we just get our original apartment back? And you say look, that's a very reasonable request but our close friends have been living there for like 8 months, and sure, you were there first, but they're there now and we can't just tell them to leave, and even if we did, it's not up to us, it's their decision. Dude says fine then, fuck you, if we can't even have OUR pad back then we'll just make YOUR life hell until you move out, and leaves in a huff. End of negotiation. Then one of your distant friends three floors down who moved in just a month ago says, screw this, I don't want to live here anymore getting harassed, I'm taking off. So you meet up again with Mr. Asshole and say hey, one of our posse just moved out, so as a sign of good faith we've told the landlord that he should give it back to the guy who was there before if he still wants it, and so maybe as a sign of good faith you and your posse could tone it down just a little. And he says that's great, now we're getting somewhere, but unfortunately that isn't _MY_ apartment and I'm still living in the 3B coat closet with Halitosis Hal, so I'll do what I can but I barely know half of these people and I'm still pretty f*ckin' pissed off myself. And for a while things do settle down, but it's not long before everybody's forgotten about what just happened and the gang wars start again, and of course the guy you convinced the landlord to let back in is in on it too. So at that point you say, well this is bullshit, we throw these douchebags a bone and immediately they try to get us out on the street again. Fuck them, we're not doing any more favours. And so on, and so forth, the saga continues. Yes, this is an absurd analogy. Yes, it's completely one-sided. But it's more accurate than yours for at least three reasons: 1. It acknowledges the 3rd-party ownership of the original property; 2. It identifies the reason for the "occupation". 3. It reveals an actual escalation of hostilities as opposed to a mysterious land grab. In the future, let's try not to oversimplify so much.

I thank the fucking universe every 4th day that you are posting again aaron! LOL!

HAHAHAHAHAHA Loves it!

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Originally posted by DigiNut Oh goody, I love the analogy game. Let's try a new one:

The analogy is okay, there is only issue that I see.

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and besides, I really don't think it's up to you guys because you don't own the building.

It's hard use ownership in this case. Like, if the appartment was built by the owner on land purchased from the state. Then the land used to be owned by the state. The state took the land from the indeginous people (natives). Some would say the land should be owned by the natives. Now, I'm not saying that the muslim arabs are indeginous to israel, lebanon, west bank and gaza, but all I'm saying is that these people don't recognize israel's ownership (historic or legal) of the land. It really depends on how far in history you want to look back, and how you define ownership.

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Originally posted by Dr. Z It's hard use ownership in this case. Like, if the appartment was built by the owner on land purchased from the state. Then the land used to be owned by the state. The state took the land from the indeginous people (natives). Some would say the land should be owned by the natives. Now, I'm not saying that the muslim arabs are indeginous to israel, lebanon, west bank and gaza, but all I'm saying is that these people don't recognize israel's ownership (historic or legal) of the land. It really depends on how far in history you want to look back, and how you define ownership.

That's just another thing. What criteria do you look at for historical/cultural claims? So complex.

Unless both parties agree to some sort of arbitration (which has been done before), the only way land disputes got solved was whoever owned the land at present time. (might = right?)

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

First of all, it wasn't supposed to be an airtight analogy, it was merely a challenge to the other weak analogies posted here and was clearly tongue-in-cheek. But if you want to be technical about it, then it's irrelevant whether or not one party "recognizes" ownership by some other party. In civilized society, ownership is determined and enforced by a central authority with proof of ownership - in the case of my analogy, the government recognizing a deed to the property, and where matters of territorial borders and sovereignty are concerned, that would be the U.N. AKA "international law."

That's the theory, anyway. In practice, the "soft power" of international law won't actually prevent the annexation of some property, so nation-states are responsible for protecting their own borders and disputes are settled by threat of military force or in some cases war. It's not pretty, but that's how it works, and that's how it will continue to work until we have some sort of world government (and the U.N. is a long, long way from that ideal).

Whether you put your faith in military might or overburdened bureaucracy makes little difference in this case, because they both recognize Israel's right to exist as well as its present borders.

Aside: Thanks for the affirmations everyone, although I was really just having some fun.

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Originally posted by Special K the isrealis are really good at what they do and ethnic cleansing is what they do

lol, whatever. so f'in clueless & false.

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Originally posted by DigiNut First of all, it wasn't supposed to be an airtight analogy, it was merely a challenge to the other weak analogies posted here and was clearly tongue-in-cheek

Didn't expect to get an essay out of it .... sometimes we have to be unbiased and it's not an easy thing, I'm not anti anyone, just stating in MY opinion why the things are the way they are.

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I noticed that the network news coverage of this situation is a lot less pro-Israel than it has been in the past. I can only hope that this signals a much needed change in American foreign policy.

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Originally posted by tatgirl lol, whatever. so f'in clueless & false.

why do you say that..because YOU don't believe it to be true? or can't conceive of it..?

not good

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814054.stm

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exerpt Strike at Gaza school 'kills 30' At least 30 people were killed and 55 injured when Israeli artillery shells landed outside a United Nations-run school in Gaza, UN officials have said. A number of children were among those who died when the al-Fakhura school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was hit, doctors at nearby hospitals said. Israel said its soldiers had come under fire from militants inside the school.

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded