quote:

Originally posted by annon185 what's better (DJwise that is....)?

I have been djing for about 5 years on both cd's and vinyl take it from me the sound quality on vinyl is much better than cd's. I usually only use cd's if it is a track produced by either me or one of my friends

I use both vinyl's and cd's! I'll agree that you can't beat vinyl for that feeling of gliding the record back and forth under the needle... then when the time is just right, letting the wheel of steel take over! for some reason it feels so nice!! On the other hand I love cd's for the simple fact... producers that have just finished the latest sickest track will throw it on cdr first, because a)they want to get it into peoples hands right away b)it takes awhile to complete the process of pressing a track to vinyl, considering with a cd you simply left click on "write file"!

So with me, I'll grab the hotest and latest cdr single online or from a buddy and drop it down the next time I'm spinning! Then finally when the record label gets around to pressing and distributing it ... I buy it

just my 2cent...

B.Meanies

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dj portion
The sound out of vinyl is so much better too as it soesnt have to be compressed to fit into a cd file you loose so much of the nice sub bass and also some of the high range stuff on cds

quote:

Originally posted by dj portion [QUOTE]Originally posted by dj portion The sound out of vinyl is so much better too as it soesnt have to be compressed to fit into a cd file you loose so much of the nice sub bass and also some of the high range stuff on cds

Thats just utter rubbish! It's been discussed to death when CD's first released in early 80's and proved to be wrong with many times. 48000 Khz sampling rate is close enough for us humans to not be able to tell the difference. Unles you're a dog it's not different! Wave format is not compressed as it put on original CD's, unlike mp3.
How do I know? I know because I'm an electronics engineer and a little deaf cuz of listening loud trance music for years

Only problem can rise from the CD audio; reproduction of the original sound. It could be slightly different (nobody can hear it but can be dedected with special equipment) due to the error correction algorthym used to compansate missing bits information (99.99999% accurate) as it read from the CD surface with some errors. Many of you computer whizz's will understand Parity check, CRC, Checksum etc. Well error correction algo in a CD player is like 100 times more complex and accurate and will compansate nicely.
You might as well go more stupid and prefer Valve amplifiers over Mosfet ones and claim they have a warmer sound (of course damn things heat up like hell) Then you'll set up with all the "genuine" audio equipment. Would you like to get a Gramophone with that sir?

Final Note: although I'm a defender of CD technologie or digital audio in this instance, I still prefer Vynil where possible because I like a little bit of imperfection and scratch sound coming from the speakers....

I prefer to mix vinyl because it makes me feel like a man. It also increases the size of my penis and makes it more likely that I will be able to pick up since I look cooler. It also makes me feel like I'm a real DJ because I have to carry around a good 10-15 kilos of records. And I like the fact that I have to spend $15-20 for two or three tracks, usually just a remix of the same song. Plus I get to bag out people who like to use CDs on completely pointless threads by throwing around terms that I very loosely understand. And lets face it, the average clubber would be able to detect (and infact care about) the minute difference in audio quality of a track played on a club PA system. So yeah... CDs suck...

___________________

I can't believe the amount of wankers on this thread who want to kill vinyl dead in favor of cheaping out both financially and in terms of investing the time in learning DJing, not DJing on "records" and how that factors into other aspects of the culture itself.

Give your heads a shake for a few minutes and understand this...

"The quick and easy path forever will dominate your destiny."
What does digital mixing technology represent? Gee, I wonder.

It is not acceptable for people to use the following excuses in their defense of "digital djing"

1. It's lighter, and I can take more tunes. Bullshit. What DJ needs to bring with him the "history of dance music" out to play a 2 or three hour set that he can't stuff into a standard issue 40-70 12" record bag in order to satisfy a crowd??? Answer, A SHITTY ONE!

2. It sounds better.
Bullshit again. Vinyl sounds better because OF IT'S LIMITATIONS as it relates to the physics of sound reproduction. CD/Digital platforms toss the rules of audio engineering out the fucking window and with that creates this "wall of sound" dead end loop that people get into with engineering material for digital use only. As a result it all sounds like flattened out garbage over loud systems.

3. I can get the most recent tunes and play lots of promos for free or "download" new tracks from new producers, blah blah.
Who fucking cares!!!? So much for any of the material you play being exclusive for more than 2 days of being released "online". You now effectively are part of the "exclusively non-exclusive" tracks club. And that price tag suggests to me that its about as worth playing as well... something that's free.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

I cant believe this thread is still going. Though I must say, its fun to drop in the odd dickwaving comment that whips people like yourself up into a blood frenzy once more.

Dude, fucking relax... Your prescious vinyl will be here to stay as long as junkies like yourself keep shelling out their hard earned for it.

And to retort...

... get some fucking scales and weigh a record case and then weigh a cd wallet. I think you'll be surprised..

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium I can't believe the amount of wankers on this thread who want to kill vinyl dead in favor of cheaping out both financially and in terms of investing the time in learning DJing, not DJing on "records" and how that factors into other aspects of the culture itself. Give your heads a shake for a few minutes and understand this... "The quick and easy path forever will dominate your destiny." What does digital mixing technology represent? Gee, I wonder. It is not acceptable for people to use the following excuses in their defense of "digital djing" 1. It's lighter, and I can take more tunes. Bullshit. What DJ needs to bring with him the "history of dance music" out to play a 2 or three hour set that he can't stuff into a standard issue 40-70 12" record bag in order to satisfy a crowd??? Answer, A SHITTY ONE! 2. It sounds better. Bullshit again. Vinyl sounds better because OF IT'S LIMITATIONS as it relates to the physics of sound reproduction. CD/Digital platforms toss the rules of audio engineering out the fucking window and with that creates this "wall of sound" dead end loop that people get into with engineering material for digital use only. As a result it all sounds like flattened out garbage over loud systems. 3. I can get the most recent tunes and play lots of promos for free or "download" new tracks from new producers, blah blah. Who fucking cares!!!? So much for any of the material you play being exclusive for more than 2 days of being released "online". You now effectively are part of the "exclusively non-exclusive" tracks club. And that price tag suggests to me that its about as worth playing as well... something that's free.

Errm... where do I start.

First up, think of the travel part like this...

1.
If I'm going to board an aeroplane with my records to play in a different country, (which has happened a lot in my life) I am taking a risk.
First up, try and convince the lady at the check in that your record back weighs less than the 15kg specified for international flights? It's not going to happen. This means that there is a chance of your precious record box being lost. I know this has happened to plenty of DJs, Carl Cox amongst many others.
When I take my CDs I can board a plane with the confidence that I have the tunes I want with me and the vinyl I'm taking is with me on the plane.

2.
Does it sound better? No, I agree that vinyl has a nicer over all feel but lets face it, if you play on a quality sounds system that has a good response your average clubber would never know the difference and most probably wouldn't care for that matter. I have played Vinyl, CDs and High Quality MP3s (Which I paid for) on big systems. I have tested the same tune on different and to be honest, with crowd noise and all other dynamics involved you would be hard pushed to be able to feel, see or smell a difference.

3.
Excuse me, but I know a lot of producers including some of the major ones, not to mention big name UK DJs and we regularly swap promos and talk about tunes that are going to go off and be huge. Sometimes up to a year before it ever sees public release. I'm taking a load with me to Ibiza this year for that purpose. To promote them.

With regards to performing rights:
There seems to be confusion on this forum. The performance rights are never dictated by the DJ or in which format he bought the music.
No purchase of any music entitles you to perform this in public vinyl or otherwise. This is done by the club which gets a PPL license or equivalent so that they can perform legally purchased music. Music acquired by means of duplication from a source not belonging to yourself is not allowed or acceptable in accordance with that license. It is however allowed that you play music that his been copied providing you own the original source. The original source these days also covers MP3 files that you have purchased through a licensed outlet for this format of music.

I see the way attitudes are changing towards new formats and I hear what many DJs are saying. I still thing vinyl will be around for a time to come.
I know people that own record companies and they are putting everything into digital these days as it simply costs too much to press vinyl and the amount of copies you have to sell to make anything is a lot more than you think.

Vinyl's number one enemy is not the CD or the MP3, it's worst enemy is itself and what it costs to produce.

Digital is not the quick path, nor is it evil. It's just an alternative that happens to provide great creative opportunities.

I have learned to enjoy it.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

1. I have no problems boarding international flights with my Technics record bag fully loaded. And BTW, its under 22kgs, not 15.
Also, most international airports have what are called "sealed checked baggage services" where a private company inspects the cargo, wraps it in special plastic with tamper proof tape and is loaded on board a plane along with the rest of its client luggage, and is fully insured. i.e. it never touches the standard baggage handler lines until just before it gets put into a plane. Also, try putting your record box in a cardboard box. Oldest trick in the book for ensuring something travels every time.

2. Most crowds are deaf. This comes from listening to music in this "day and age" sourced from digital, engineered for digital, but played back on an analog system (all systems for sound reproduction at the amp/speaker level are analog) completely ignoring the laws of fucking physics - and produced this "deaf audience". That and almost a decade of digital compression applied to sound material in the form of mp3s or otherwise.
The root cause of this goes back further however - way back when, - to the introduction of the compact disc -where engineers began to loose understanding of the concept of "dynamic range".
When this started to happen they simply cranked the "volume" more and more to create the illusion of "brilliance" of a mix down.
The problem with this is when you crank things up across the board you have no more headroom and effectively begin to send square, flat signal from X to Y frequency through the system and nothing has any definition to it.

3. Who cares what the "big uk djs" think?? Frankly the ones I am in contact with are scrambling to try and figure out what to do next because their entire performance market has dropped out from under them. Wonder why?? Boring toons from the same old same old perhaps? Digital or vinyl shit music is what is killing the scene and that is being compounded by moron distribution agencies who keep putting out crap.
As for the costs of releasing on 12", frankly we have that down to a pretty low price tag while not comprimising on the materials, the cut or the packaging and we manage to do just fine sellng to real DJs and stores direct.
With regards to "performance" rights as you mentioned below, our licensing system permits DJs to make use of their 12" copies of our records and create mixes with them - rights required or granted to make this possible included - and then with some limitations provide them to the public in a mixed compilation without penalty from us if they choose to do so. That is a long time coming and frankly I think if a few more labels got on board the dance music culture wouldn't be in the toilet because there would be an active DJ culture out there pushing the barriers instead of playing the "play lists" of all these big so-called "superstar UK/EU" djs, who most of which would get there heads ripped off going head to head with just about any half decent bedroom DJ on vinyl on this side of the pond.
We have DJs on Black Tiger Recordings that are fully capable of doing this now, and we know of dozens of others who can mix and put on a show at the same time that would effectively put most of the EU jetset superstars to shame...

Have fun in Ibiza. Don't take your crowd for granted.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

Congradulations... you've just recieved the "TA most pretencious DJ who is more hung up on vinyl politics rather than actually mixing award"

Give it a rest dude, no one cares how cool your label is or how your average canadian bedroom DJ will rip apart your average european "jetsetter" DJ. Which I have to say, is a rediculous claim if ever I've heard one. It begs the question why they are still in the bedroom for example? I'm sure you have an answer though.

Take a bow DJlithium. Your the man. I'm converted. I'm going to burn my mp3 and CD collection and smash my DNS5000's to bits. What the hell was I thinking? Infact I'm going to melt down all that silicon and make a big plastic donger to keep up my ass to remind myself of the day I was converted to being a real DJ by your good self.

___________________

Hey no problem.
Good that you can see the light

As for the "still in the bedroom" factor, well if you had any sense of how most of this "music business stuff" works you would understand that being a "big massive dj" has effectively nothing to do with talent these days and more about marketing dollars. Being in north america that is short to come by for dance music considering any time in the past 20 years its been on the up swing some crack head pulls out the carpet from under it, cashing out as fast as possible and jumping ship.

Any time any of these favorite UK djs wants to step up and go head to head in a blind taste test, I am game and I am in fact already playing.

Not all UK djs suck, but most of the ones that granted, get most of the attention over here seriously blow chuncks.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

Yeah, well dont go making completele baseless comments about the quality of an entire continents DJs. How the fuck do you know whats going on in bedrooms all over the world? Just because you and your mates can mix or scratch better or play more underground tunes than fucking sasha and digweed doesnt mean shit.

If your are as an experienced DJ and label promoter as you say you are, then you ought to know better. Seriously, this whole dick measuring thing just doesnt suit trance at all imho. Save it for the fucking hip hop man.

___________________