let's go memphis

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Originally posted by The17sss lol.... anyone else around here agree with this guy!?

I agree with everything other than the taking Dirk over everyone else part.

Unless we're talking starting from scratch and DRAFTING the guy whilst knowing how each develops, I can't see how anyone would take a 32 year old over a <25 year old to build a team from scratch. It defies logic.

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Originally posted by Burn Notice No, it's not. Name me the last point guard to lead a team to a ring?? Magic fucking Johnson and that's because he is one of the greatest of all time. Lakers repeated with a skeleton at PG. Celtics rang with a strong defensive frontline. Miami with Wade going bonkers. Spurs with Duncan in his prime and so on and so on. Don't blame Dirk for having a shit team most of his career. Dallas are about to sweep the 2 time defending champs with 38 year old Jason Kidd at point. PG is one of the most overrated positions when it comes to playoff basketball.

11 strait years of 50+ win seasons and making the playoffs. Real shit teams in Dallas there.

I do blame Dirk because this is the first year he has shown up in the playoffs for more than 1 or 2 games. But let's go by your theory... take an average garden variety point guard like Mario Chalmers. You think the Spurs win those last 3 titles if you replace Tony Parker with him? Hell no. You think Boston wins in 2008 with Chalmers instead of Rondo? The Celts aging big 3 even acknowledge no Rondo = no title. You think it's a coincidence that a Chauncey Billups lead team went to the conference finals 7 strait years? The Bulls are in this position now with Mario Chalmers at PG instead of Rose... with Joakim Noah and Loul Deng as the supporting cast!? LMAO!

You can use the example of the Heat now and the Lakers without a great point guard but take a closer look. LA had uber hall of fame superstars Shaq and Kobe in their prime! You could have those 2 with three high school players and they would have still won. Then Kobe, Gasol, Odom, and Bynum... plenty to make up for the lack of depth at point guard. And with Miami today, same thing- they are an exception because they have 2 mega superstars in their prime. Unless you have some outlandish situation like that with multiple in-their-prime hall of famers, you aren't doing shit without an exceptionally well played PG position.

I'm just saying if I wanted to win a championship now I'd take Dirk over any of those other players in a heartbeat. A 7 footer who can shoot like he can is nearly unstoppable.

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Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

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Originally posted by The17sss You can use the example of the Heat now and the Lakers without a great point guard but take a closer look. LA had uber hall of fame superstars Shaq and Kobe in their prime! You could have those 2 with three high school players and they would have still won. Then Kobe, Gasol, Odom, and Bynum... plenty to make up for the lack of depth at point guard. And with Miami today, same thing- they are an exception because they have 2 mega superstars in their prime. Unless you have some outlandish situation like that with multiple in-their-prime hall of famers, you aren't doing shit without an exceptionally well played PG position.

Jason Kidd?

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Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

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Originally posted by srussell0018 Jason Kidd?

Dallas hasn't won anything yet... this is just the 2nd round of the playoffs. And did he not take New Jersey to the NBA finals 2 years in a row in 2002-2003?

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Originally posted by The17sss Dallas still hasn't won anything yet... this is just the 2nd round of the playoffs. And did he not take New Jersey to the NBA finals 2 years in a row in 2002-2003?

So your argument is that he was good 8 years ago?

The Mavs are also about to knock the previous 2 years' NBA Champions out of the playoffs too in case you haven't noticed. The team that many picked to win it again this year.

Regardless, Dirk is a better player than all of the people you listed any way you want to put it. Put any of those other players on the Mavs and this series would probably be 3-0 Lakers, if they even made it this far.

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Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

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Originally posted by srussell0018 So your argument is that he was good 8 years ago? The Mavs are also about to knock the previous 2 years' NBA Champions out of the playoffs too in case you haven't noticed. The team that many picked to win it again this year. Regardless, Dirk is a better player than all of the people you listed any way you want to put it. Put any of those other players on the Mavs and this series would probably be 3-0 Lakers, if they even made it this far.

No, my argument is that you're not going to reach the promised land without an exceptional point guard +, or 2+ hall of fame superstars in their prime.

I'm not surprised at LA's faltering... why are you? Did you not watch the 2nd half of this season? They are aging fast, and even last year they needed a miracle last second tip in from Gasol to escape Oklahoma City taking them to a game 7. They needed a last minute comeback against Boston in game 7 of the finals to win, when Boston's starting center blew his knee out in game 6.

I'm not saying Dirk isn't a great player, but you can't do it with just 1. Someone needs to distribute the rock to him. I just can't believe how hard you're blowing him when he has never even made it to the NBA finals and is known for not showing up in crunch time.

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Originally posted by The17sss I just can't believe how hard you're blowing him when he has never even made it to the NBA finals and is known for not showing up in crunch time.

Actually, the Mavs were in the finals in 2006 and went up 2-0 before D Wade went crazy. They also beat the 1 seed Spurs as a 4 seed in 7 games in the Conference Semis, and the 2 seed Suns (with a hall of fame PG who was also MVP that year) in the Conference Finals in 6, and Nowitzki was also all NBA first team that year. I hardly consider beating the top 2 teams from the West, and then losing to a team that had Shaq and D wade "not showing up."

The year after that he lead an average Mavs team to 67 wins, while winning the league MVP himself. Argue all you want, the guy's numbers speak for themselves.

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Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

Last edited by srussell0018 on May-07-2011 at 22:09

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Originally posted by srussell0018 Actually, the Mavs were in the finals in 2006 and went up 2-0 before D Wade went crazy. They also beat the 1 seed Spurs as a 4 seed in 7 games in the Conference Semis, and the 2 seed Suns (with a hall of fame PG who was also MVP that year) in the Conference Finals in 6, and Nowitzki was also all NBA first team that year. I hardly consider beating the top 2 teams from the West, and then losing to a team that had Shaq and D wade "not showing up." The year after that he lead an average Mavs team to 67 wins, while winning the league MVP himself. Argue all you want, the guy's numbers speak for themselves.

yeah you're right... I forgot that monumental collapse was in the finals vs. the Heat and not the western conference finals. So what if he won the MVP in 2007... what did he get for it? A first round playoff exit to the 8th seed when Dallas was the number 1 seed! Where was Dirk the Conqueror then? Forgot to mention that, eh?

At any rate, like I said by no means am I saying Dirk is not a great player. I love his game. My argument isn't against his greatness or the fact that he's a damn near impossible matchup. I just think its absurd to say that even if he is great, that you would choose him at age 32 over a lot of other people in their prime to build a team around.

is going on in here