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Originally posted by EddieZilker That's quite good, actually.

Especially being released on Good Friday
Should check out his other one "Gay Pirates".

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Originally posted by Comrade Stalin I think woscar has a point. You can't possibly believe any of this based on scientific, empirical, lab-tested evidence.

How would you test a historical claim in a lab? History is not a science, and the Bible is a collection of historical documents, or at least claims to be. The key historical claims of Christianity are weak not because they fail to adhere to some "lab test" standard of science, but because they are corroborated only by other Christian sources.

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Originally posted by Alex23 Oh Nou... Ever heard of a guy called NT Wright? He offers plenty of factual evidence regarding Christianity and the New Testament. Same with William Lane Craig. Not to mention a dozen other philosophers that deal with Christianity and faith.

I dont know the ones you mention, but there aren't many people who claim that it is incorrect that Jesus lived. it surely has great historical value.

But these factual proofs .... are they something about God existing .... or that Jesus was God's son?. Because thats where people get critical.

There are probably not many who are unable to relate to the message and the story.

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Originally posted by Domesticated Richard Dawkins isn't even 100% atheist.

For what it's worth, unless you're talking the .001% that the scientist within him must leave open for unforeseen discoveries, you're wrong.

It depends on how you define Atheism.

It also quite depends on how you define 'God'- as usual.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Dawkins is not an Atheist in the narrower sense. He leaves room for the possibility of there being a god, in the same way that he leaves room for Santa Claus to exist.

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Originally posted by D-res For what it's worth, unless you're talking the .001% that the scientist within him must leave open for unforeseen discoveries, you're wrong.

Really? Well then why does he class himself as a 6 on his scale of belief?

http://books.google.com/ebooks?id=y...atb&pg=GBS.PA74

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectr...tic_probability

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Mix archive | Melbourne club guide

Because that .001% makes all the difference. He looked at all the unbiased evidence and upon that evidence concluded that there is no god and that one existing is improbable if not impossible. But if somehow someone came up with definitive, undeniable scientific proof that there indeed is a god, by virtue of that .001% he would be swayed by the evidence while those that dont allow even that small a possibility woudnt believe in god even if she appeared naked before them performing a lap dance.

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back to the Political Discussion / Debate forum with ya!
you are scaring the trolls with all your running about, sheesh!

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles How would you test a historical claim in a lab? History is not a science, and the Bible is a collection of historical documents, or at least claims to be. The key historical claims of Christianity are weak not because they fail to adhere to some "lab test" standard of science, but because they are corroborated only by other Christian sources.

Archeology is certainly a science. There is nothing to prove anything about Jesus. Everything written about Him, about his miracles and such, was written decades after His death, by people who saw Him as the Son of God, and so it would be expected they'd write awesome things about Him to reassure themselves of this belief. I'd love to believe as they do, that this is all true, but not knowing whether it is true or having the means to find out, prevents me from believing the New Testament is 100% true.

The American Civil War happened. Did I see it? No. So how do I know it really happened 150 years ago. There archeological evidence everywhere to support the notion that it happened. Dead bodies, bullets, weapons, fortresses, ships, etc. What do we have about Jesus? Again, copies of texts written overwhelmingly by His own followers, decades after His death. That is unfortunately for Alex, the reality. There is no proof.

Last edited by Comrade Stalin on Apr-23-2011 at 17:40