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RonAron303
tranceaddict in training
Registered: Mar 2005
Location:
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Explanation on 03.2%bpm for on more key:
For example you want to go from F#m to Gm next octave(its 13 steps up) so if you count it as 3%bpm and you add a 13 steps up you will get a 39 which is sounds more F# or Em but not Gm and if you will count it as 3.2%bpm you will get to 41.6 wich is Gm .
So, in large numbers it will get more out of tune that one you've been expected
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 Mar-27-2005 12:11 
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RonAron303
tranceaddict in training
Registered: Mar 2005
Location:
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Hi Nemesis44 ,you totaly right about Armin's mix and he had been choose some record ,that will harmonicaly mix(he pitched ave mea to Gm) with Gm and Dm(iam shure that he had more tracks to mix with,not just Ave mea ,but he choose Ave mea cause it match the harmony too(since,he sad that the whole mix of asot cd will be mixed harmonicaly)so, i totaly agree with you ,that he had to choose some ,lets say from 5 or more songs 1,and mix (that they will be match both,structure)
I gave an example of opera just because i wanted to show that there is no realy rules to mix harmonicaly.
I heard that people say :"oh he mixed out of tune (kinda clashes),and its not sounds to my ears" .
But its totaly boulshet ,i know some people ,who have perfect pitch and they say : "i dont like jazz ,just because its kick my ears",and those people have 30 years of classical training , so what,do they right?do jazz dont have biuty of the sounds?
And for shure there is A-tonal music ,which not contain keys(all keys are welcome).
Or for example : 4strings's track turn it around ,in this track the root is Emin and EMaj but the lady sings in C#m ,so what ? She do sing out of tune ?or sombody will say that is not biutyfull ?
So,as i understand all the point is to amaizin people out there at the parties ,so why we should realy mix harmonicaly ?and if you want to amaizin people ,you shour not going to mix harmonicaly .
Well,Armin did good job ,and mostly i enjoy with hes structural progressions.
So,again there is for shure more to learn about harmony by its selfs
and not just some Cm to Gm wich good too ,but not enought(i mean, your specific fealings about harmony,which colours(keys and chords) are bringing to you happynnes and wich not or other fealings.(thnx)(cheers)
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Mar-27-2005 14:43
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qualia
tranceaddict
Registered: Jan 2004
Location:
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i agree with nem the term "harmonic mixing" is misleading. to me, it simply means mixing using knowledge of music theory. while the theory is complex and has been simplified in these forums/sites, i can't deny the impact using this knowledge has had in my own mixing. not only do i find myself combining melodies and harmonies of songs, but i can use key changes for mood transitions as well. in the end, knowledge of the theory opens more creative possibilities...
you point out that jazz and particular tracks "clash" according to harmonic mixing rules outlined here. i think this is inevitable when you come up with any simplified system of rules . obviously the songs make sense to the listener (or most), and taken in context i think music theory can explain why each works. at the very least, as an artist i think you need to understand the "rules" of music theory before you can break them effectively ;-)
most dance tracks i hear however definitely have a predominant key, to which the general rules works quite nicely. ultimately it comes down to your audience. music is very subjective, and while some people might not notice a clash in key, others will. to some i suppose, mixing in key is only icing on the cake. i've found it to allow me add more creativity to my mixes without any clashing, as personally if i here mixing go out of tune or off beat i'm annoyed...
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Mar-27-2005 15:52 
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RonAron303
tranceaddict in training
Registered: Mar 2005
Location:
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| quote: | | i think music theory can explain why each works |
And i will say....
Qualia ,music theory can't explain everything what composer had done or planed in his track ,for this there are specific reasons(because composers can broke the rules,and they do it very often,i mean very often,very very)(and when you break the rules ,thats mean you broked one of the rules of holly theory)(Hmm...hmm....).
Well... ,you catched me when you sad :"you need to understand the "rules" of music theory before you can break them effectively"
Hmmm.........
ill tell you that.I know music theory...,and my knowledge alow me to understand that and to say what i already sad and will,and more than that ,you cant break the rules ,there are already breaked( )
I like jazz too ,so i dont think that jazz is clashing to me and i dont categorise it as "clashing" ,i gave an example of what other people are saying about that .
Finaly ,i think you shouldnt take those harmonical stuff more serios,as you sad:
| quote: | | not only do i find myself combining melodies and harmonies of songs |
maybe,but its hard to say,(if you mean all this thing wich has been sad by camelot and others,example:Cm can be perfectly mixed with Cm or Fm or Gm or EbM)if you meant basic rule of camelot and other,but i disagree with those rule ,just because this is not rules for mixing
And your melodies and harmonies can be mixed with other keys ,not only with those wich camelot gave .and what about Innercity' Mix cd os1999 did you cheked it Or Armin's last asot2004 or Hi-bias' mix of Lange and Plastic angel or M.O.S's Trance America three ...did you cheked all those ones ?what those great dj's like Tiesto ,Armin,Lange and many others ,mixed their melodies with in the keys?or they used in those mixes ,chart of scales?or they tryed to match their melody of mixed track with the other track in the key?--------------No and No and No________that would be my answer--------- .
About from C#m to Dm ,i remeber i analyzed the Ferry Corsten Mix of Trance energy 2000 and from 12 tracks of that set i heard 8 or less(i dont remember ) had been mixed just one semitone up(ex:Cm to Dm)
and that sounded fantastic(from Cm to Dm  m its very far key from Cm,so we can call it as not posible mix as camelot .......)
I gave an example here before about Trance ,harmonical mixing tips :
You move just for one semitone (Ex: C#m to Dm) ,thats acts like energy lift.................................--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ill try to post later for Nemessis44 .
Sorry i should run ,i work at sundays too.
-----------------------------------------------(thnx)(sheers)-------
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Mar-27-2005 17:56
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johnny2003
tranceaddict
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: LANCS UK
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| quote: | Originally posted by RonAron303
Hi Nemesis44 ,you totaly right about Armin's mix and he had been choose some record ,that will harmonicaly mix(he pitched ave mea to Gm) with Gm and Dm(iam shure that he had more tracks to mix with,not just Ave mea ,but he choose Ave mea cause it match the harmony too(since,he sad that the whole mix of asot cd will be mixed harmonicaly)so, i totaly agree with you ,that he had to choose some ,lets say from 5 or more songs 1,and mix (that they will be match both,structure)
I gave an example of opera just because i wanted to show that there is no realy rules to mix harmonicaly.
I heard that people say :"oh he mixed out of tune (kinda clashes),and its not sounds to my ears" .
But its totaly boulshet ,i know some people ,who have perfect pitch and they say : "i dont like jazz ,just because its kick my ears",and those people have 30 years of classical training , so what,do they right?do jazz dont have biuty of the sounds?
And for shure there is A-tonal music ,which not contain keys(all keys are welcome).
Or for example : 4strings's track turn it around ,in this track the root is Emin and EMaj but the lady sings in C#m ,so what ? She do sing out of tune ?or sombody will say that is not biutyfull ?
So,as i understand all the point is to amaizin people out there at the parties ,so why we should realy mix harmonicaly ?and if you want to amaizin people ,you shour not going to mix harmonicaly .
Well,Armin did good job ,and mostly i enjoy with hes structural progressions.
So,again there is for shure more to learn about harmony by its selfs
and not just some Cm to Gm wich good too ,but not enought(i mean, your specific fealings about harmony,which colours(keys and chords) are bringing to you happynnes and wich not or other fealings.(thnx)(cheers) |
#
all armin did here was he realised that he wanted to mix space guitar and ave mea. in the end is F#m and has a BPM of 127.8 and space guitar is Gm and has a BPM of 134.0 i.e. in the end therefore needed to be speeded up to around +5.5 (not accurate so dont go mad!!!!). Therefore Ava mea became Gm, and should therefore have mixed nicely - is this correct??
so speeding up by +6 is needed to change a song 1 key up is this correct? i.e. ava mea is F#m but by pitching it to +6 it became Gm?? Am i right here??????
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Mar-27-2005 19:39 
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qualia
tranceaddict
Registered: Jan 2004
Location:
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Mar-27-2005 20:14
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