quote:

Originally posted by Alex23 Ever heard of a guy called NT Wright? He offers plenty of factual evidence regarding Christianity and the New Testament.

Don't know him, but what is "factual evidence " in this context? It doesn't say anything on Wikipedia, so could you link to or mention any?

quote:

Same with William Lane Craig.

No, he does not. All W.L. Craig's arguments can be refuted with elementary school learning. His primary argument. The Kalam argument is just a reformulation of earlier arguments that have been refuted by philosophers and skeptics through centuries.

The premise of the argument is:
1: Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
2: The universe has a beginning.
Conclusion: The beginning of the Universe has a cause. This is what we call God.

There are several things wrong with it.
Firstly, he has not shown that everything that has a beginning has a cause. Everything we know of so far has, but the universe's creation, regardless of how it happened is such an extreme event that we can not use our experience of current laws of nature as conclusive evidence.
Secondly, he lacks the proof that the universe has a beginning.
Most scientists believe the universe present form has a beginning, but not necessarily the substance.
Thirdly: Even if we assumed the first two premises were true, then it would still only mean that there was a cause for the beginning of the universe - not that this is a thinking being and certainly not that it is the Christian god.

quote:

Originally posted by mr.bison but there aren't many people who claim that it is incorrect that Jesus lived.

There is actually no evidence that Jesus ever lived as an ordinary, non-divine human either. Of course it is possible that a teacher/carpenter named Yeshu was around in Palestine shortly after the year 0, but there is no reason to believe it.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi

ah classic tune

quote:

Originally posted by Znack Everything we know of so far has, but the universe's creation, regardless of how it happened is such an extreme event that we can not use our experience of current laws of nature as conclusive evidence.

Huh.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Znack There is actually no evidence that Jesus ever lived as an ordinary, non-divine human either. Of course it is possible that a teacher/carpenter named Yeshu was around in Palestine shortly after the year 0, but there is no reason to believe it.

It's possible there is no evidence, but name, job description and such was pretty common ... so it could be likely?

quote:

Originally posted by mr.bison so it could be likely?

Sure, but is that a reason to believe it?

It is also quite likely that in Wellton Town lives a family with two children named Johnson. There is still no reason to conclude it. The possibility in itself - or even the likelihood - is completely irrelevant. We are talking about the evidence.

Last edited by Znack on Apr-25-2011 at 23:54

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker It seems a great deal of atheists have a pejorative regard for people who don't see the world as they do.

Wrong. faith creates erroneous actions. It's not about seeing the world the same way, it's about not fooling yourself and believing things without evidence, because it is directly harmful.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Huh.

And huh to you.

We do not know if natural laws, such as action-reaction arose from the Big Bang or whether they are constants outside time and space. Experiences of how the universe works now is useless when we're talking about a time before the universe came into being. There are discussions in scientific circles about whether some constants would be the same in another universe.

Moreover, the big killer: If everything requires a beginning, it helps absolutely nothing to put a god into the equation, because he (she?) also requires a beginning, and who then created god?

quote:

Originally posted by Znack And huh to you. We do not know if natural laws, such as action-reaction arose from the Big Bang or whether they are constants outside time and space. Experiences of how the universe works now is useless when we're talking about a time before the universe came into being. There are discussions in scientific circles about whether some constants would be the same in another universe. Moreover, the big killer: If everything requires a beginning, it helps absolutely nothing to put a god into the equation, because he (she?) also requires a beginning, and who then created god?

Unless you have any evidence whatsoever, there's simply no use talking about it.

Unless you'd also like to recognize why many theoretical physicists are extremely spiritual.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Znack There is actually no evidence that Jesus ever lived as an ordinary, non-divine human either. Of course it is possible that a teacher/carpenter named Yeshu was around in Palestine shortly after the year 0, but there is no reason to believe it.

What's the word on those writings from the historian Josephus (spelling?) that mention Jesus? I know it's fairly well-accepted that the addition of the words "who was called the Christ" were edited in by someone else, but what about the mention in the first place?

___________________
Captain Planet is gey.
Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.

Didn't see it; didn't happen!

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I was meditating and I found God... (thankful) I was lost... but know I'm Found.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Why not just ban the whiny bitches instead?