quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel I would just like to mention that the two people who keep making these circular references to the bible and Christianity are both 16 (and live south of the Mason-Dixon line too btw) I know this will get the response of "what does 16 have to do with anything?". So I will address it now. Answer: EVERYTHING When one is 16 you get into this phase of "I know everything and everyone else is stoopid" (we all did). You are old enough to drive a car (in the US), you are just close enough to 17 to get into R Rated movies no problem, and you are halfway through high school and become more entrenched in the mass-personality cult that is high school. Your hormones are on overdrive and it makes you considerably more obstinate than you would normally be. Once you get out of high school you will realize that you DIDN'T know everything. You will realize the sheer volume of things you were sheltered from by your parents, teachers, and by the insular society you were a part of. They will ask now "Who are you to say these things?" I will tell you. A decade ago, I was the intellectual king of my little high school world. I was more well read, got better grades, and had a much stronger personality than 99.5% of the people in the school. I had an ego the size of the Hindenburg that was continually inflated with hot air as I went along. It was not until after I had left high school that I saw how much of an idiot I was and the ego deflated to about the size of a VW microbus, still a decent size, but manageable. It was then that I realized that Socrates was right when he said "The only knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing." The 16 year olds will continue to disagree with me because that is what they do best....but I would venture to guess that even the evil zionist-mustard clan will agree with me on many points. Man, fallin asleep at 8 pm when you usually go to bed at 11-12 means you have weird thoughts when you wake up 2 hours earlier than usual MrS

LMAO this post brought back some memories! I thought I was teh l337 when I was 16!

___________________
aka Tits McGee
aka Chesty LaRue
aka Busty St. Claire

I made a post about this in the chill out room with links, but basically the follow has happened with the passion of christ:

1. Two people were struck by lighting during filming, one of them jesus Caviezel himself.

2. Some lady died of a heart attack while watching the movie

3. A computer in a theatre somewhere in the US kept printing 666 on the tickets

4. The composer of the movie kept seeing satan in his computer screen

I cant wait to see what happens next...

How can some of those jesus freaks not believe in the signs, but believe in Mel Gibson - son of a holocaust denier.

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz im the thread started, and ive just gotten home, around 7pm. last time i was on, yesterday, there was some 20 pages. now its like 26. i cant keep up. what i do is just look at the last page, and start from there. but anyways. there are no contradictions in the bible. u just dont understand any of the logic. the bible is a book written FOR christians, BY christians, and understood ONLY by christians. it isnt just some book. all its views, stories, and content are geared toward the christian reading it. those with the holy spirit. u will never understand biblical content if u dont have the holy spirit, because that is the gift god gives you, that OPENS your eyes. again i tell you, u will never understand the bible because it not the book because the content is not for those without the holy spirit. and as i tell you this, i know, u will laugh at the words im saying, try to refute what im saying, or not believe what im saying. all this just proves my point. u do not understand the bible, unless u are reading it from the perspective it was meant for. the bible's content does not say the things it says to anybody and everybody. it is for only those who have the perspective the bible was meant for. those with the holy spirit. lastly, i say again, u won understand what i say, or what the bible says, because it is not from your perspective. but again and again, i will use the bible as my source, because i believe it to be the most credible source there is. even though, u dont understand the logic, perspective of the words i qoute out of it.

IOW, even though the Bible has a great many contradictions in both the historical and logical context, you have to be in the Christian-club in order to ignore these inconsistencies and just believe what you want regardless?

So what should I choose: live in a rational, logical world where we can understand that the earth is indeed, not flat and not the center of the universe, that witches do not cause the plague, that bacteria does not spontaneously create itself, that there are cures for many many diseases because we can understand bacterial resistance, that Jews do not need to be converted lest they be murdered, etc. etc. etc.

-or-

Jump into the fundamentalist Christian bubble world where nothing outside what's stated word for word in the Bible makes sense?


Hmmm, that's a tough one.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo How can some of those jesus freaks not believe in the signs, but believe in Mel Gibson - son of a holocaust denier.

Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this???

Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this??? Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

I think it might say something about Mel's upbringing and rationale, which may or may not be evident in his movie.

Since I haven't seen the movie yet, however, I'm reserving comment for now.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this??? Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

For the same reason the ideology of Ahnold's father was brought up during the California recall elections. It's a contentious talking point, but not much else. I pretty much agree with you.

Kind of like that saying "We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us."

quote:

Originally posted by Heinz there is no excuse for not knowing god. automatically, if your reading my words, u have no excuse for not knowing god.

----------------------

Heinz, with all due respect, this is utter bullshit. Just because Jesus' may or may not have been around and crucified does not entail that everyone across the world KNEW of his life immediately after his death. How on earth would you suppose that would occur, save a few billion fax machines and/or cell phones? How were the Native American Indians supposed to have known about Jesus immediately after his death?

Many cultures to this day still know nothing of Jesus and/or Christianity - that is a fact. Shall God be condemning these innocent individuals because they have never known of His Son?

quote:

there is within us, an instinct of god. that gives us our concept of "right" and "wrong". morality.

You bring up a second non-related point here the origin of morality, and again with all due respect, your statement is complete utter bullshit. And as I have posed to Nessa, if this is true, then there should be nothing but atheists occupying our jails across the world.

But what's more, this assertion is absolutely baseless. Here's a hypothetical scenario, and I'm sure you'll probably get lost, but let me post it anyway:

If God decided it was moral to rape and pillage at will, would it then be considered OK by His followers to rape and pilliage?

If you say that God wouldn't consider raping and pilliaging moral, then God is bound by moral rules rather than being the source of morality.

So, morality, being a human invention, can and does exist without belief in any dieties, let alone your particular god. Morality is a social convention that developed to make living in groups more pleasant.

Here's another question: the Christian god is supposedly the standard of morality (since He is perfect), however it is shown that He can do whatever he wants, even if by our own moral code it appears He is acting immoralIn fact the bible has many accounts showcasing his endorsed atrocities, some of which has already been pointed out. Why did God set a standard of morality from which He Himself feels it unnecessary to follow?

And lastly, there are sociological studies on the benefits of cooperation amongst individuals in a society, above all else a set of established rules of conduct tend to develop which benefit the group as a whole.

Can you give clear examples that, in fact, morality is absolute?

quote:

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse ----------------------

IOW, God's existence and nature can be found with reason alone?

But God rhetorically asks Job:

"Can you discover the essence of God? Can you find out the perfection of the Almighty?" (Job 11:7)

So which is it? Can we find out the essence of God or can't we?

quote:

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. This is what used to be permisible. not knowing god. now that jesus has come to this earth, now there is no excuse for not knowing god. now, there is NO excuse for sin. none at all.

Tell that to the Aboriginees who knew nothing of Jesus before, during, and many years after his death (until the English came in and did quite a number on them). I sure hope God went pretty easy on these poor innocent souls not knowing who Jesus ever was.

---------------------

quote:

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. many of u dont believe because u have never "seen" god. but jesus did, and he came to this earth, so therefore we HAVE seen god. because jesus was god on earth. so that "not seeing god" is no longer valid.

No one ever "saw" God? Then what's all this hubub?:

Genesis 12:7
"And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him."
Genesis 17:1
"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him...."
Genesis 18:1
"And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre."
Genesis 26:2
"And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of.
Genesis26:24
"And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not."
Genesis 32:30
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Genesis 35:1
"And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother."
Genesis 35:7
"And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother."
Genesis 35:9
"And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him."
Genesis 48:3
"And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan."
Exodus 3:16
"The LORD God ... appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you."
Exodus 4:5
"That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee."
Exodus 6:3
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob...."
Exodus 24:9-11
"Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink."
Exodus 33:11
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."
Exodus 33:23
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."
Numbers 14:14
"For they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face."
Deuteronomy 5:4
"The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire."
Deuteronomy 34:10
"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face."
Judges 13:22
"And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God."
1 Kings 22:19
"I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left."
Job 42:5
"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
Psalms 63.2
"To see thy power and they glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary."
Isaiah 6:1
"In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up."
Isaiah 6:5
"For mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
Ezekiel 20:35
"And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face."
Amos 7:7
"The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand."
Amis 9:1
"I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake."
Habakkuk 3:3-5
"God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran .... He had horns coming out of his hand."

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Heinz, even the catholic church doesn't agree with your views!

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Why is it necessary for Jews on this forum to repeatedly bring up Mels father in all this??? Yeah, he's an ill thought out man, but who gives a fuck?

Cyrus - thats stupid man. Someone so strong in his convictions, 99% of the time, is raised by someone strong in their convictions.

Mel Gibson would love nothing more than to deny/hate jews, he just knows his position in society and that is simply cannot be done. If he really did not believe it, he would have denied his father's comments instead he chose the "i have no comment on this". For shit sakes, the guy even said his wife is going to hell bceause she is a protestant.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 No one ever "saw" God? Then what's all this hubub?: Genesis 12:7 "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him." Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him...." Genesis 18:1 "And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre." Genesis 26:2 "And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. Genesis26:24 "And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not." Genesis 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Genesis 35:1 "And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother." Genesis 35:7 "And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother." Genesis 35:9 "And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him." Genesis 48:3 "And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan." Exodus 3:16 "The LORD God ... appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you." Exodus 4:5 "That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee." Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob...." Exodus 24:9-11 "Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink." Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." Numbers 14:14 "For they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face." Deuteronomy 5:4 "The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire." Deuteronomy 34:10 "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face." Judges 13:22 "And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God." 1 Kings 22:19 "I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left." Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." Psalms 63.2 "To see thy power and they glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary." Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up." Isaiah 6:5 "For mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts." Ezekiel 20:35 "And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face." Amos 7:7 "The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand." Amis 9:1 "I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake." Habakkuk 3:3-5 "God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran .... He had horns coming out of his hand."

I didn't understand any of that. Hold on, let me put on my holy spirit .... nope still don't get it. I think my holy spirit is an old perscription and it needs to be upgraded at the godtomotrist. Can anyone who speaks fluent bible translate this for me? Thanks.

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by Frode Heinz, even the catholic church doesn't agree with your views!

Yes, but as you well know, many o' fundamentalist Christians think very lowly of the Catholic Church in general.

On the flip side, their historical dissenter, Martin Luther, had some interesting things to say about the Jews in his time:

"For, as all can see, God's wrath over them is so great that gentle mercy will only make them worse and worse, and harshness little better. So away with them at all costs."

His solution to the "Jewish Question":

"Away with them at all costs"

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...