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Originally posted by Endlesswave As for how that relates to this situation since Israel's founding, my question is at this time, was there an entity, a 'Palestine' that had been occupied by the British? Or were there just a bunch of people scattered through out the area? There IS a difference imo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#The_20th_century

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Dr. Z The problem is not that the pro-Israel side does not see the 'truth'; it's that the pro-Israel side aknowledges that both sides have made mistakes, and there needs to be a fair compromised solution. While the pro-Palestinian side places all the blame on Israel and (a lot) want to wipe Israel as the final act. Helloo! It's the 21st century. You will never be able to elimite a group of people, or a country. Especially one that is westernized within, has some western support, and is frankly many times stronger than you.

are you for real? do you know how many people i know who have been accused of antisemitism for not agreeing with israel??? my fiance the latest one......all for saying that what israel was doing was not right..give me a break dude....please don't give me this song and dance about how the pro jewish side is so accepting....

i haven't heard one person that is pro palestinian in this thread say that we want to eliminate isreal..i personally would like to see the palestinians have FOOD and ELECTRICITY...ummm..maybe the same rights and liberties as the jews?

blanket comments based on nothing but speculation on your part....

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Originally posted by gummybear are you for real? do you know how many people i know who have been accused of antisemitism for not agreeing with israel??? my fiance the latest one......all for saying that what israel was doing was not right..give me a break dude....please don't give me this song and dance about how the pro jewish side is so accepting.... i haven't heard one person that is pro palestinian in this thread say that we want to eliminate isreal..i personally would like to see the palestinians have FOOD and ELECTRICITY...ummm..maybe the same rights and liberties as the jews? blanket comments based on nothing but speculation on your part....

I don't recall one pro palestinian saying that their side is also to blame for the current state of things.

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Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

Is it not a given that both sides have not been perfect in the past?

Although, in the current situation..i do put the blame on the Israeli government..

Why are we even arguing that point instead of being outraged at what is happening now?

If the current situation was caused by a cease fire being broken..and one side broke it..isn't that side responsible for the current situation?

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I don't recall one pro palestinian saying that their side is also to blame for the current state of things.

Its not rocket science we all admit that both sides are equally bad and to blame here ...... but the bloodshed on one side is way more than the bloodshed on the other,one side has electricity,food,medical supplies,warm clothes and peacfully within their homes where as the other hiding in random places to save their own lives not knowing when a bomb will fall on them and end there lives.On one side people are dying just because of the fact that the hospitals are filled and there are no operation rooms for the next injured ones to be treated where as the other side complete opposite....these are sad days in human history......Im not saying this just because of the fact that Im Muslim and they would be my people .... Im saying these words from a human level .....Im saying these words because of the fact that I have a family and I think when someone loses someone its the most painful loss one can go thru in their life and stupid shit like this to cause it......Failure of us as Human Beings.

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Originally posted by UmmiE Its not rocket science we all admit that both sides are equally bad and to blame here ...... but the bloodshed on one side is way more than the bloodshed on the other,one side has electricity,food,medical supplies,warm clothes and peacfully within their homes where as the other hiding in random places to save their own lives not knowing when a bomb will fall on them and end there lives.On one side people are dying just because of the fact that the hospitals are filled and there are no operation rooms for the next injured ones to be treated where as the other side complete opposite....these are sad days in human history......Im not saying this just because of the fact that Im Muslim and they would be my people .... Im saying these words from a human level .....Im saying these words because of the fact that I have a family and I think when someone loses someone its the most painful loss one can go thru in their life and stupid shit like this to cause it......Failure of us as Human Beings.

so how is this different then any other war ever fought?

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by Yohan it's from wiki, so take it as it's worth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Activities

Intersting... But then where do all those rockets come from? And why the continued waste of money on them when the result is always the same? Israel blows up Palestine until the Palestinian side runs out of rockets, then a ceasefire is signed for 6 months while they restock. Doesn't that ruin all the good stuff Hamas (or other Palestine governments) has done during the ceasefire? Wouldn't the money spent on rockets be enough to get electricity for the population?

Here's what I REALLY don't understand. Yes, Israel broke the ceasefire by destroying a supply tunnel and 6 Hamas militants. But Hamas responded not by attacking the Israeli military, but by launching bombs randomly towards civilian populations. Israel said "Hey, stop bombing us, or we'll retaliate, and Hamas said "Fuck You!" and kept on launching while hiding amongst their own, innocent, citizens. Why would Hamas do that when they KNOW that Israel will just start sending planes overhead to blow shit up? It seems like such a foolish decision to me. If they HAD to retaliate, Hamas could have gone after the Israeli military, but they decided to target civilians first and foremost. And I don't understand that decision. What should Israel have done when Hamas was launching rockets on their towns and given almost a week to stop?

My point is this. I'm 5'8... Now, if a 7 foot tall body-builder pushes me out of the way while walking... we'll say in a mall. I agree that he's done something wrong. But I have a choice. I can confront him, and attempt to get an apology, perhaps a promise not to do it again, there's even a slim chance he turns out to be a cool guy and we go out to watch the hockey game at the local bar. I can turn the other cheek, forgive, and live my life. I can go to the cops to pursue assault charges... OR, I can throw an ineffective punch at his chest, throw a few more when he tells me to stop, and end up in the hospital farting through my mouth. Sure, I had the moral high-ground right off the bat, but by the time I was heading to the Hospital, I had no one but myself to blame for my circumstance. In my view, Hamas may have had the moral high ground after Israel broke the ceasefire, but then they decided that they wanted to fart through their mouths, and gave up that credibility. Where's the wisdom in Hamas' decision? Israel is committing horrible acts upon the Palestinian people, not just during wartime but through all the sanctions they place on Palestine, I agree. But why is 5'8 Hamas continually trying to pick a fight with 7' Israel? Isn't there a benefit, both to them AND the people they represent, to attempt to form a cooperative relationship with the Israeli side? I have a hard time believing that Palestinians would continue to starve and be deprived of electricity, if their governments weren't so hell-bent on attacking Israel whenever they're given the chance. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and attempt to get along, and most times, it's the WEAKER side that has to do it, simply out of necessity. If Hamas wanted peace and stability for their people, it could be done in an hour.

Instead, neither side seems interested. Because what *I* see and hear is "NO PEACE, NO PEACE, Israel must be turned to dust!" on one side and on the other I hear "We have a RIGHT to the land that we stole! You can HAVE these shitty little areas we saved for you, why won't you accept that?!" BOTH sides NEED to cooperate, or else war will just keep erupting every 6 months. Sometimes sparked by the Israeli side, and sometimes sparked by the Palestinian side. I'm no expert on foreign affairs, but there HAS to be a way to resolve this conflict that doesn't involve Chem's simple solution of blowing one, or both sides to oblivion, and that doesn't rely on some weak-ass 'ceasefire' agreement that should really be called a "restocking truce".

Please note that I'm not trying to argue which side is right. I honestly don't CARE who is "right" or "wrong" in this conflict. I'm interested in why decisions that are made, are being made. In short, I'm simply openly pondering what I perceive as foolishness in Hamas' decisions that I do not understand, given Israel's raw power advantage.

To people on both sides, if you want 'accountability', then be fair. BOTH sides are committing atrocities that must be condemned. And telling me "Oh, well Israel started it, and besides, Hamas' bombs weren't killing anyone and Israeli bombs are." isn't good enough. Telling me "Hamas launched rockets on towns and had a week to stop, so it's THEIR fault!" isn't good enough either. BOTH sides have caused civilian death, and thus BOTH sides were, and ARE wrong, at least this time around.

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Originally posted by Yohan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#The_20th_century

Ah, so from what I'm reading there was a Palestine officially but a UN mandate messed it up when the 'powers that be' redrew and changed the borders of the area?

The mandate was rejected by the Palestinians but accepted by the Jewish people there from what I read. Aha. This explains a lot.

Thanks Johan.

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Originally posted by Dr. Z Especially one that is westernized within, has some western support, and is frankly many times stronger than you.

you sure about that???

lets wait and see what will usa do when somebody strikes at israel(and we all know it will happen, and fast). somebody who actually can do some serious damage.

you really think arab countries will wait much longer??

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Well said Spam.

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Originally posted by Spam What should Israel have done when Hamas was launching rockets on their towns and given almost a week to stop?

aim at schools that they had coordinates for????

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