quote:

Originally posted by D'Paul Pro-America doesn't mean being a conservative fascist.

Yes it does apparentely ... I'm just biding my time until I'm labelled a neoconservative hawk.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSaenz Fucking electoral college.

Here's the reason for its existence according to Alexander Hamilton:

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.


Essentially the founding fathers were afraid of a direct link between the public and the selection of the President. The fear comes from the belief that a tyrant could manipulate public opinion. The electoral college would essentially act as a check on an electorate that might be duped.

Whether you agree with it or not is up to you ... kind of a throwback to old days if you ask me ... but then again I think of McCarthyisms of the 50s, anti-civil rights movements in the 60's, and what could happen if another 9/11 type attack occurs today. Essentially if the population is scared enough they'll vote anybody into office who appeals directly to their concerns. I do agree with the founding fathers that most people are inherentely stupid and easily duped though

Additionally, some people forget that we are a United STATES of America. The electoral college was part of a compromise to smaller states such that they have the same number of electoral votes as they have representatives in congress. If this wasn't agreed upon perhaps we would not be so united today. At any rate if you're hoping to remove the electoral college I wouldn't hold your breath. A constitutional amendment would need to be ratified by 3/4 of the states for that to happen and it's unlikely that the smaller states would agree.

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Originally posted by occrider Here's the reason for its existence according to Alexander Hamilton: It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief. It sounds like he's basically saying he doesn't want stupid people to vote..... Whether you agree with it or not is up to you ... kind of a throwback to old days if you ask me ... but then again I think of McCarthyisms of the 50s, anti-civil rights movements in the 60's, and what could happen if another 9/11 type attack occurs today. Essentially if the population is scared enough they'll vote anybody into office who appeals directly to their concerns. I do agree with the founding fathers that most people are inherentely stupid and easily duped though Additionally, some people forget that we are a United STATES of America. The electoral college was part of a compromise to smaller states such that they have the same number of electoral votes as they have representatives in congress. If this wasn't agreed upon perhaps we would not be so united today. I disagree. THe votes from smaller states/population centers would still be part of the total of all who voted, and would better represent all living in those states/population centers. At any rate if you're hoping to remove the electoral college I wouldn't hold your breath. A constitutional amendment would need to be ratified by 3/4 of the states for that to happen and it's unlikely that the smaller states would agree. Yes I know. It would have taken a Democrat to win in the electoral college for it to have been changed (after the last election at least). If I recal correctly wasn't Kennedy elected in the electoral college over Nixon? Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

How do you feel living in DC, and your vote not counting if you voted for Bush in the last election???

p.s. 10,000 post in the political forum. W00T!!!!

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Apr-18-2003 at 17:39

Well I agree that smaller states are unfairly getting more representation, I'm just saying that as a concession to get the smaller states to join the Union it was worked out that way.

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Originally posted by DaveSaenz How do you feel living in DC, and your vote not counting if you voted for Bush in the last election??? p.s. 10,000 post in the political forum. W00T!!!!

That's why the liscence plates say "taxation without representation". But that's an issue of DC being a district rather than a state ...

At any rate if I voted for Bush (and I didn't) then it would have counted ... towards the state electoral votes.

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Where in DC are you at? And who did you vote for in 2000?

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Originally posted by D'Paul Where in DC are you at? And who did you vote for in 2000?

Georgetown ... Gore

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Rofl.

Not that it matters man, but I pegged you as a Pat Buchanan (sp?) supporter.

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Apr-18-2003 at 22:19

- I think that when it comes to elections, it's not about the small states or larger states representing, it's about what the PEOPLE want, and who they want. After all, this is a country in which, supposedly, it's popular sovereignty. When Gore won Bush by a margin of some millions or so, it's quite obvious who the majority want, but, the electoral college system made the US seem so bad compared to the system of all the democratic countries in the world.

I think that the representations of states is a matter for a House/senate purpose, but it should not be done for presidential elections purpose.

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Originally posted by LiquidX - I think that when it comes to elections, it's not about the small states or larger states representing, it's about what the PEOPLE want, and who they want. After all, this is a country in which, supposedly, it's popular sovereignty. When Gore won Bush by a margin of some millions or so, it's quite obvious who the majority want, but, the electoral college system made the US seem so bad compared to the system of all the democratic countries in the world. I think that the representations of states is a matter for a House/senate purpose, but it should not be done for presidential elections purpose.

I agree, unfortunately it's never going to get fixed without a revolutoin because small states are even more over-represented in the amendment process.

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Originally posted by DaveSaenz Rofl. Not that it matters man, but I pegged you as a Pat Buchanan (sp?) supporter.

Buchanan is a nut

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Originally posted by LiquidX - I think that when it comes to elections, it's not about the small states or larger states representing, it's about what the PEOPLE want, and who they want. After all, this is a country in which, supposedly, it's popular sovereignty. When Gore won Bush by a margin of some millions or so, it's quite obvious who the majority want, but, the electoral college system made the US seem so bad compared to the system of all the democratic countries in the world. I think that the representations of states is a matter for a House/senate purpose, but it should not be done for presidential elections purpose.

That's how I see it as well.

I'm sure there are even people like Hilary Clinton in Wyoming, although I'm sure you can count them all on one hand. Their vote should count just as much as the seperatist gun-nut they live next to.
BTW, Hillary is TOO leftish for me sometimes; "To the point of Flakeiness," as John SMith would say.

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quote:

Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Whatever I deleted all of this because Cyrus King and Ahmalek are dicks.

have you ever seen a non pro american american?
i havent

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