actually i was thinking about it the other day and i was thinking about events that happened in the first movie that i didn't notice. So i pulled up the first one and watched it more closely and here i concluded this:

in the first movie, when Morpheous takes Neo to see the Oracle, he told him she was a guide to help him see the path. That part i knew something is up with it cuz the resistance from the matrix was all about choice, not a pre-determined path by higher powers (the oracle)

again: the french man in the 2nd movie, the talk with Neo, he told him that he was very good at following instructions.

Tank himself said in the first movie "10 hours straight, he's a machine"

Also the whole spoon scene in the first movie.
child: do not try to bend the spoon, that is impossible but rather only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
child: there is no spoon
Neo: there is no spoon?
Child: then u will realize it's not the spoon that bends, it's only urself.

When we go back to when Morpheous was teaching Neo how to fight in that kung fu scene, he said "some (rules) can be bent, others can be broken"

back to the oracle scene in the first movie, the oracle tells him not to worry about the vase and he breaks it and she says "oooh what's really gonna cook ur noodles is would u have still had broken it if i didn't say anything."

in the same scene she tells him he's not the one and that he's waiting for the next life.

all this leads to one thing: Neo is half human/half machine. The oracle is the program that controls the entire matrix hence it's named the oracle.

in computer programing (and i've said that b4 but my friends called me crazy) the oracle script is the codes incharge for running the backup/recovery/maintance programs in an operating system (any computer programers, help me out here, i'm not 100% sure of this but i read it somewhere)

my point is: Neo is a program/machine himself. The oracle is simply programing him to "follow" the path. As we all know "there is a difference between follwoing the path and walking the path"
difference is humans walk the path while programs simply follow the instructions.

there is a connection between Neo and the Agent: i think Smith was an old "one" that had chosen to save Zion only to realize he screwed up. Him being smart, he saved himself in the matrix as an agent to hunt the next informant "Neo"

I think Smith (the machine, not the human) grew beyond his parameters (of simply being the human smith's image in the matrix) and he is trying to lead the machines into destruction by killing the one who saves the matrix (by eventually destroying Zion)

Edit: last point is Neo was programed to love. He loves Trinity and i think M2's point was to emphasize on that point therefore the cliched romance scenes. Neo's love to trinity does affect him deeply human or machine. He can't live without her because body can't survive without the mind and in his mind he loves her very much. This is what i think: Neo's love represents hope. Hope that we will live in a free world without machines and that Agent Smith was fighting for the humans after all and that Morpheous got it wrong. It is not Neo that is fighting for "us" it is agent Smith himself!

call me crazy but better crazy than stupid

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Last edited by Rocco on May-18-2003 at 16:19

quote:

Originally posted by Arsalan your wrong on a couple of points and i dont agree with most of your points but its your opinion and i dont feel like typing a lot.

buddy..theres nothing liek wrong or right here

its WRONG for u to say that im WRONG just for stating some rather obvious glitches with the movie.

the first movie as i mightve said was hard to find real glitches with

i look deep into storylines and analyse whther it is logical or not. alot of reloaded was illogical.
oh and to sum it up...

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quote:

Originally posted by DJLocoMoco After watching the movie I thought, these machinces/AI are extremely intelligent, so it would be safe to assume that during the revisions of the Matrix, they programmed fail safe back-ups....i.e bullet proofed their software, as most good programmers do. So, for the 1% that reject the matrix and see it for its' truth, these fail safe programs kick in. Programs like the oracle, key maker and such kick in to create a new illusion for these people, to again blind them from the truth, a new hope is given to them a sense of freedom, a sense of real life. However, Zion is only a contruct of the matrix, it is created only to weed out these few who reject and pose a threat to the matrix.....once a large number of them accumlate, Zion is detroyed and then re-created to continue the same process, hence the choice given to Neo to repopulate Zion. So I came to the conclusion that Neo, Morpheus, Trinity and the others are still in the Matrix, still connected, still hardwired, they have only been eluded to believe that they were set free. This would explain why Neo still had powers in the illusionary "real world", because its not the real world its still the matrix.

Finally... something that makes sense. I've been thinking about it, and that to me seems like a good explanation. Otherwise, the story seems to make no sense. Why would the architect want to repopulate Zion, if it could be completely destroyed, for all time? Your explanation above seems to make a ton of sense.

the matrix within matrix thing fits in really well, but i dont think thats what actually happens..

and neo is human, not a machine, thats the whole point, that humans are stronger than machines...he just sorta binds with the matrix cuz his powers are too great and he cant control it, so he could affect the machines in the real world

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it was the greatest feeling of nothingness i have ever experienced...

My friend sent me this really good review of the Matrix 2. You guys should check it out. Look for the 2nd posting by Alejandro on this page (1/3 of the way down):

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-...=8;t=000022;p=2

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SHUT UP AND DANCE !!

quote:

Originally posted by Tordan My friend sent me this really good review of the Matrix 2. You guys should check it out. Look for the 2nd posting by Alejandro on this page (1/3 of the way down): http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-...=8;t=000022;p=2

holy crap that was a good theory....

and as i mentioned before, the matrix imo takes on alot of concepts from terminator and the 13th floor (a virtual world within a virtual world in the real future)

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I posted this in the MTL forum. I basically thought it was shit. I cant believe anyone actually liked it. And calling it brilliant is simply ludicrous. It was nothing more than a 150 million dollar B movie.

quote:

Originally posted by discojoe Am I the only one who thought this movie was terrible? I liked the first one.. but this one had more cheese than a dj jean party. Holy fuck the cheese never ended.. from morpheus' speach at that overdone rave to the annoying french man (with a terribly fake accent) to the black guy ship drivers 'wooo cool dude' comments to the awful love scenes ('i love you too damn much' for christs sake cut that shit out) It went on and on. And sure the special effects were 'cool' but they had no purpose. Every fucking battle they would fight people with no chance of winning. The camera would spin around them 18 times to show what a tecnical marvel the movie was and then 15 fucking minutes later they realize they cant win and just leave. Neo seems to think he's fucking superman and that scene with the hundred men was retarded.. if i wanted to watch a video game I would do play quake or street fighter or something. The first one was good.. it was new it was different and it made you think. This one was nothing more than a technology showcase that in my opinion was clearly inferior to recent special effects movies

^^^^^^lol

i remember nudging endlesswave and infinity_high during the movie and telling them how cheesy some scenes were... as i said..tehre are many things that needed more thought and the cheese couldve been reduced

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee ^^^^^^lol i remember nudging endlesswave and infinity_high during the movie and telling them how cheesy some scenes were... as i said..tehre are many things that needed more thought and the cheese couldve been reduced

Thats the thing. The concept is so good. And much of the general story of the series is well thought out. But I really thought the execution was terrible. And i cant get over the idiots that buy it. How could you possibly think those black guy one liners were funny.. yet this fat rosanne lady behind me couldnt get enough of them. She was rolling on the floor laughing while i was staring at the floor vomiting. And as much as a cave rave with 200000 people is just about my wildest dream.. it was kind of silly, out of place and overdone in the movie. Good song though

Just got back, and I must say:

It was okay. Saying it was brilliant is REALLY stretching it.

I think they did a really poor job of transferring the style and mystique of the first one. Basically, the whole concept lost its coolness after just about everyone and their brother watched the original 43 times.

I thought the first half-hour was laughable. It just had CHEESY written all over it.

The new operator is a boring character, who doesn't really contribute anything, but maybe his story will take place in Revolution (at least I hope so, or wtf was the point of that scene with his wife?!)

The keymaker was REALLY poorly done. He had like what, 3 lines?!?!?

I am just really disappointed at how poorly scripted the movie was. Most of the script was boring one-liners. I think the visual fx deptartment kept coming to the Wachowski Bros, telling them how they've learned to do all this cool stuff, and they just found dumb ways to write it into the script.

The special effects were fantastic, but thats just about it in terms of pros.

OH, and another thing. WTF is up with Zion? The control room is clean, white, sterile and all funky looking, but everything else is dirty and grimy....

2.5/5

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//..

Yes certain aspects of the film were cheesy, but I just ignored them, and focused on the evolution of the plot, and that is what I enjoyed.
EDIT:
I've watched the revolutions trailer a few more times and it seems to me that they've gone with the Neo is a machine approach, which is ok I guess, but to be honest It would have made more sense if they had gone with the matrix within the matrix idea and it would be a nice plot twist too. However, had they done that it would have only complicated things, and raised more questions like "Where is the real world? How do they free/Can they free themselves from this second matrix?", and I don't think they would have been able to conclude the film in one last part. So the machine theory is the most probable of explanations.

Last edited by Möbius on May-18-2003 at 23:45