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TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Music Discussion > FINALLY: Ishkur's Guide v2.0
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DJ JohnE5
tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN

quote:
Originally posted by Cobalt
It's not nearly as good as that other guide.

Oh, wait. There is no other guide.

Jeez, some of you people need to take this thing with a grain of salt and recognize the value of having a guide like this out there.

And regarding the Not Trance category, you're totally missing the point of why he even put it there, which was to criticize the ridiculously overinflated breakdowns that some trance 'anthems' contain these days. Compare to classic or progressive trance, which instead build on subtle progression to create a musical journey. The type of trance he's typifying under that label totally defeats the purpose by throwing these massive, uber-uplifting melodies in your face rather than slowly crafting them.

Sure, there's anthem trance I love, but he's making a very valid point about the death of Sasha-style progressive trance, which I feel was superior in most respects to the uplifting trance I hear today.

Complain if you want. Ishkur will continue to be Ishkur, and I certainly don't agree with everything he's got on that guide. I find most of it simply amusing. But nothing else close to this exists on the net, so stop acting as if he made some sort of criminal offense.


I couldn't agree more.

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:37  United States
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Cobalt
Trance Isn't Trance



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC

quote:
Originally posted by Excite
three drives - greece 2000 and lost tribe - gamemaster labeled as progressive??

what a dumbass!


Well Greece 2000 is progressive trance, even by today's definitions, but that's beside the point. Both of those tracks were considered "progressive trance" when they were created, whereas trance proper came into being in the early to mid 90's.

Don't call people dumbasses if you're not completely sure what you're talking about. Take a look at what he has filed for progressive house and what he calls "British House."

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:38  Canada
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Greedy
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: NoVA/DC

check out his terror categories. . . talk about migraines.


___________________
When you start to criticize the times you live in, your time is over. ~Karl Lagerfeld

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:44  Vietnam
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DJ Freestyle
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Denver, USA

Pretty cool that he would take the time to do all of that, even if it isn't very accurate.


___________________
God is a DJ.

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:46  United States
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Icesotope
Laicifitra Ecnegilletni



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Ipoh

I'm really really out of words... all i have to say.is F.U.C.K. Off, Ishkur, you are a no good son of a b**** that is polluting peoples mind...that is not a guide, its your sick ass opinions of genres

In Fact, I think i only satisfy with his Goa/Psychedelic in the "Trance Section"

damn it hardtrance its not hardstyle.....

Last edited by Icesotope on Sep-26-2003 at 07:23

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:47  Malaysia
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Occasu
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: B.C.

quote:
Originally posted by starglider
I'm sure he's laughing at all of you taking him so damn seriously.
.
Well said, Cobalt.
Yup! LOL if he isn't I sure am LOL! Some people take this sub genre thing a little too seriously to begin with .

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:48  Canada
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DJ JohnE5
tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN

quote:
Originally posted by Icesotope
I'm really really out of words... all i have to say.is F.U.C.K. Off, Ishkur, you are a no good son of a b**** that is polluting peoples mind...that is not a guide, its your sick ass opinions of genres

In Fact, I think i only satisfy with his Goa/Psychedelic in the "Trance Section"

damn it hardtrance its not hardstyle.....


Way to get worked up about something that doesn't matter AT ALL.

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:49  United States
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Ishkur
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver, BC

Somewhere in my guide, I wrote:

"the trance template of breakdown-build-anthem...made this strange, space-age music suddenly acceptable to the sonically docile masses....This cookie cutter, paint-by-numbers formula...reformed [trance] into a neverending series of pop jingles...the quirky kind of music with only a niche market [was] no longer long, unwieldy, repetitive and unresponsive, it became a familiarity....a powdered, sugar-coated pop schmaltz...for easy digestion by [those] who would never think to even blink at trance in its raw incarnate....the musical equivalent of drowning a meal in ketchup so you can't taste the original flavour anymore.

In doing so, it stopped becoming trance."



All your objections are proving me right.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't hate trance. I hate BAD trance. And Rank One - Airwave is the poster boy for really bad, baudy, fluffy fake trance.



(Why is Cobalt the only one who's figured it out?)

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:55  Canada
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DJ JohnE5
tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
(Why is Cobalt the only one who's figured it out?)

No dude, I totally agree.

PS. Your site is hilarious, gotta love Rave Captions.

Old Post Sep-26-2003 06:59  United States
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Excite
TA4Life



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
Somewhere in my guide, I wrote:

"the trance template of breakdown-build-anthem...made this strange, space-age music suddenly acceptable to the sonically docile masses....This cookie cutter, paint-by-numbers formula...reformed [trance] into a neverending series of pop jingles...the quirky kind of music with only a niche market [was] no longer long, unwieldy, repetitive and unresponsive, it became a familiarity....a powdered, sugar-coated pop schmaltz...for easy digestion by [those] who would never think to even blink at trance in its raw incarnate....the musical equivalent of drowning a meal in ketchup so you can't taste the original flavour anymore.

In doing so, it stopped becoming trance."




props to ishkur for making this tongue-in-cheek catgories..it needs improvement but its definetely better than version 1!!

btw don't dog on rank 1 - airwave. that is a fav track for a lot of us TA's.

Old Post Sep-26-2003 07:25  United States
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Pio
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2002
Location: NYC-New Haven- San Juan-Amsterdam / PRTA #1

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
Somewhere in my guide, I wrote:

"the trance template of breakdown-build-anthem...made this strange, space-age music suddenly acceptable to the sonically docile masses....This cookie cutter, paint-by-numbers formula...reformed [trance] into a neverending series of pop jingles...the quirky kind of music with only a niche market [was] no longer long, unwieldy, repetitive and unresponsive, it became a familiarity....a powdered, sugar-coated pop schmaltz...for easy digestion by [those] who would never think to even blink at trance in its raw incarnate....the musical equivalent of drowning a meal in ketchup so you can't taste the original flavour anymore.

In doing so, it stopped becoming trance."



All your objections are proving me right.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't hate trance. I hate BAD trance. And Rank One - Airwave is the poster boy for really bad, baudy, fluffy fake trance.



(Why is Cobalt the only one who's figured it out?)



I totally understand what you mean with "not trance" and I agree with that definition as I hate cookie-cutter stale fluffy trite formulaic trance as well. But I also think that you're kind of missing the point with some of these examples. You have an obvious bias against trance coming from Europe and tend to prefer the oriental/non-European variants. Fine. But from a purely musical perspective, one has to recognize that within the basic structural formula of European trance truly amazing music has been made. The concept of a formula is a Western (European)idea that stems back to the 17th century with the euro dance music of the day (ie. minuets, sarabande, gavottes, guiges, allemandes, the waltz in the 19th C. etc.). Composers such as Bach, Handel, Mozart, Strauss and so on took those dance music formulas (that are ESSENTIAL for white people all over the world who just don't have the same soul or funk to get down on the dancefloor naturally) to another level. I think the best exponents of european trance production and djs have managed to carry that concept forward.

Also, I loved your examples this time even more because they just go on to prove how complex and diverse the styles played by my favorite djs are. From acid trance to breaks to swedish techno to the so-called progressive house/trance and even minimal techno to the Gouda kind of anthemic european trance, produced with class, depth and originality. I found samples in all of these groups of tracks played by one of those djs you love to hate for supposedly being all cookie-cutter.

I enjoyed the new section on downtempo and the shoutout to minimalism. However, I think minimalism and ambient were VERY instrumental in the creation of trance (both european and oriental) because it stresses similar aesthetics, music made by a process. Minimalism is done with a western art music bias because this was the background of all of its composers, even if it gives prominence to oriental music as a great influence, it's all about the Euro bias in its approach to music making. It was funny when you described some anthem as having 3 notes in its melody as if that was something bad Minimalism. That's what the best trance is all about, turning that formula into a process.

I agree with the hating on Children, I never liked that track and it did indeed give trance a bad name from my perspective. It's just Yanni with a kick. And trance and bass does indeed rule. The amen break thing was hilarious. You should do a clownstep def. as an extension of jump up. That would be funny and it wouldn't be more legit than "not trance". Just an idea. Later....

Old Post Sep-26-2003 07:46  Puerto Rico
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Angelus
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Australia

ishkur so knows what going on, much more so compared to the ta's getting really angry about the guide


___________________
Sasha is taller, and he only has one name, where as John Digweed has two. John and Digweed.

Old Post Sep-26-2003 08:17  Australia
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