quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian First of all we were under your occupation for 36 years. So no, sorry, we will not stop the Palestinian Revolution. We gave you numerous chances. And Viber, 1996 was one of the worst years of the Oslo accords. Many pregnant women going into labour were denied access to hospitals and their babies died. Many children were shot and killed as they demonstrated. 1996 was terrible but I will not go over the details right now. By the year 2000 we were fed up. Our leadership did not back down on Oslo but we decided to fight back because our people were dying. It was Barak that broke negotiations because of the intifada. And the intifada started again because of the lack of Israeli good faith in negotiations and their most disgusting offer that Barak proposed, which was absolute garbage. No, we will not back down. We will not end the intifada. Not until you leave us alone. Go back to your country. Go back to Israel. Protect your borders, but get out. And you tell me about a map of all of Palestine including Israel in Fatah's offices. Yes, so why is it also that the Knesset has a map of Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates? And why does Israel still have it's maps without the occupied territories as Palestine? Why are most of the western world maps with Israel as the whole strip of land and no occupied territories? It goes both ways, buddy. But this is normal. It doesn't mean anything. Even if we have two states, we will still be different in our maps. It's normal. Oh by the way, the Americans did kill loyalists in cold blood, which were civilians. George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British. The British media portrayed him as a terrorist. He wanted to burn down New York. This is human nature I can't stop saying it. Innocent civilians are always targetted in such revolutions. It's not right, but this is life.

if the Barak proposal in Taba is absolute garbege then how come the pal" are agreeing to it now,it hasent changed,and also i think that 94% of the terretories+a fair agreement about jerusalem is a fair sulotion(im talking about the Clinton layout in taba and not the first taba if youve got confused..)
your freedom fighters are only stoping and killing any chance for peace,your "revolution" will never happen until the Orginazations will get the Idea of the israeli state,the idea that the whole jerusalem will never be theirs and not even tel-aviv.
you should check the leaders view"s like i did,AS a top fatah member said: "the intifada is not our way of getting a bigger part of israel in a peace plan,its for winning israel in the war"(including tel-aviv Etc)
plus dont twist things around it was the palstinians who refused to this offer becuse of the returning right and a few more other reasons..

BTW:i dont really beileve youre "facts" about 96,becuse Shimon peres was the prime minister beck then..

Barak's offer at Camp David was garbage. But negotiations did not end. Another meeting was held in Taba where there was progress. Then Barak closed negotiations because of the intifada and because he was facing Sharon in the elections. Israel was never serious about a true two state solution based on equality and respect for the inalienable human rights of all people. The right of return was only a part of it.

1996 was a horrible year for Palestinians. I'm not asking you to believe my facts. You can choose to keep your zionist eyes closed, that's up to you. But let me refresh your memory. First of all Shimon Peres is not an angel. Either way, it was the second half of 1996 where it got bad. I believe Netanyahu was PM then. There is a lot more than what I posted below but I don't want to take more space than I already have.

September 25, 1996
Gaza witnesses its bloodiest day ever, as the number of Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip rises to 25.

As of 18.00 this evening, 14 Palestinians had been injured in Rafah, six in Khan Younis, and two in the middle camps of the Gaza Strip. Israeli helicopter gunners are currently opening fire on civilian areas in Rafah itself. Israeli Defense Force installations are being reinforced within the Gaza Strip, while Israeli soldiers are continuing to use live ammunition against Palestinian civilians.

After a period of calm this morning, the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights’ fieldworkers report that clashes have broken out in Rafah, Khan Younis, and near Kfar Darom settlement in the middle of the Gaza Strip. Israeli soldiers are using lethal force randomly and the number of injuries is increasing by the hour.

It has been reported that Israeli forces have continued to fire randomly at Palestinians in the West Bank, including at the Friday prayers at Al-Aqsa Mosque, where it is reported that three Palestinians worshippers were killed today and some 70 injured.

Israeli occupying forces throughout the Gaza Strip acted without control and fired randomly at Palestinian civilians, killing many and wounding hundreds. This is evident from the fact that Israeli fire was directed at the torsos and heads of Palestinians, clearly aiming to kill or grievously injure. Also, high-powered high-calibre automatic weapons were used by Israeli forces. The Israeli forces reinforced their positions with tanks, armored personnel carriers, and helicopters and these were employed to fire indiscriminately into heavily populated in Rafah, Khan Younis, and near Kfar Darom settlement.

An updated list of the names of Palestinian civilians killed, as well as any additional information available regarding residency, age, and the nature of injury follows:

1. Nura Musa Abu Sa’ad. From Deir al-Balah, 13 years old, shot in head.

2. Qasim Suleiman Al-Buhisi. From Zawaydah village, 16 years old, head injuries.

3. Mohammed Al-Bayumi. From Rafah, 16 years old, head injuries.

4. Hani Jalal Musa. From Deir al-Balah, 18 years old, bodily injuries.

5. Riziq Suleiman Al-Hawajri. From Zawaydah Village, 30 years old, bodily injuries.

6. Ahmad Salim Al-Najar. From Khan Younis, 19 years old, head injuries.

7. Mohammed ‘Abdul Karim Al-Astal. From Khan Younis, 12 years old.

8. ‘Abdul Majid Saleh Hamad. From Khan Younis, 23 years old, chest injuries.

9. Mohammed Fathi Hasballah. 20 years old, shot in chest

10. Hazim Fawzi Saqer. 20 years old, shot in head.

11. Rashad Khader Abu Quta. 18 years old, shot in the head.

12. Hassan Mohammed al-Yazji. From Jabaliya, 28 years old, shot in the head.

In addition, at least 315 wounded Palestinians have been treated in the Gaza Strip’s three main hospitals and in several clinics in Rafah. This number does not include hundreds of wounded who have been
treated in other local clinics.

A Bloody Day in the Gaza Strip

Published @ 08.30 GMT (10.30 local time) 26 September

From the very early hours of Thursday, 26 September 1996, a state of extreme tension has prevailed in the Gaza Strip, as protests, sparked by the massacre of Palestinian civilians at the hands of the Israeli armed forces in the West Bank, erupted throughout the Gaza Strip. Incidents of protest and violence have been concentrated in areas close to Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip and near crossroads controlled by Israeli military forces, especially in the areas of Kfar Dorom and Netsarim in the middle of the Gaza Strip, in Rafah, and around the Erez checkpoint on the northern border of the Gaza Strip with Israel.

A special team from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights is closely monitoring the events which are currently occurring all over the Gaza Strip. Our field workers have reported that Israeli soldiers are using excessive force and shooting randomly at demonstrating Palestinian civilians, in clashes the likes of which have not been seen since the redeployment of Israeli forces in May 1994.

According to information obtained by the Centre as of 08.30 GMT (10.30 local time), at least five Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli soldiers using live ammunition, including a 13-year-old girl, while the number of Palestinians wounded is over 100. Gaza’s hospitals are in a state of emergency, and the sirens of ambulances transporting more wounded from the areas where clashes are taking place can be heard racing through the streets.

The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights is calling upon the international community for immediate and urgent intervention to put an end to the Israeli massacres of Palestinian civilians and to stop the bloodshed in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

The Palestinian Centre holds the Israeli armed forces and the Israeli government totally responsible for the deterioration of the current situation and for the killing of Palestinian civilians in cold blood.

NOTE: The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights has set up a special operations room to monitor events as they unfold, and will continue to publish information about the developing situation.

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*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

Palestinian is owning you all..

Mjusik Cox sucker.. read some Amnesty International reports so you have an IDea about what youare talking about..

And you wated a case where the IDF killed children!!!

quote:

In October 2001, Harper's magazine published the "Gaza Diary" of journalist Chris Hedges. Hedges' entry for June 17, 2001 provides even more shocking evidence of the wanton and deliberate killing of Palestinian children by Israeli soldiers at Gaza's Khan Yunis refugee camp. Hedges writes: "I sit in the shade of a palm-roofed hut on the edge of the dunes, momentarily defeated by the heat, the grit, the jostling crowds, the stench of the open sewers and rotting garbage. A friend of Azmi's brings me, on a tray, a cold glass of tart, red carcade juice." "Barefoot boys, clutching kites made out of scraps of paper and ragged soccer balls, squat a few feet away under scrub trees. Men in flowing white or gray galabias -- homespun robes -- smoke cigarettes in the shade of slim eaves. Two emaciated donkeys, their ribs protruding, are tethered to wooden carts with rubber wheels." "It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker." ""Come on, dogs," the voice booms in Arabic. "Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!"" "I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: "Son of a bitch!" "Son of a whore!" "Your mother's ****!"" "The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come." "A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. The soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children's slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos." "Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight young men, six of whom were under the age of eighteen. One was twelve. This afternoon they kill an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more, three of whom are under eighteen. Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered -- death squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevo -- but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport."

Suck my Cox

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik what would you cal it then?

I'd call it, so much hate and resentment against the Jew's from the Arab/Muslim camp that it drives them to kill Jews as an honourable deed.

We are not after them for one specific act of terror, but rather against a whole infrastructure. A cycle means, “tit-for-tat”, Israel plays more along the lines of ultimately eliminating terror, and not just retaliation for “one” specific act of it.

If the Arabs put down their weapons today their would be no more violence, on the other hand, if the Jewish state surrendered its arms, there would be no more Israel.... and the pattern would continue until we end up where history repeats itself...genocide.

quote:

Originally posted by 'mju:zik exactly and when you retards chil the fuck out and stop blowing shit up you will get your land all to yourself. fuck, Israel is holding this giant peace of steak above you saying "sit doggie, sit" and all you keep doing is jummping up on them. just sit the fuck down and eat your food.

SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL!

quote:

Originally posted by Arafuct If the Arabs put down their weapons today their would be no more violence, on the other hand, if the Jewish state surrendered its arms, there would be no more Israel...

this simple arguement is basicly what it winds down to.
anyway you look at it the misery that is befacing the palestinians today could all just go away if the terrorists deside to disband completely. no more israeli state terrorism, no more civilian casualties, no more propertie damage, no more road blocks. Israel has proven that it can be held as a responsible peaceful neighbour when relations are friendly (ie Egypt, Jordan). On the other hand if israel were to stop its self defense it would be only a matter of seconds before terrorists take advantage of the lowered secuirty (ie suicide bombings following the oslo accords). palestine has so much to gain by fixing the terrorism that resides within their power. israel has so much to lose if it does not defend itself.

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

'Palestinian', you win the prize for the most shameless propaganda ever published on this forum. I'm about to decide if starting a dialogue with you has any sense at all.

One thing, though.

"September 25, 1996
Gaza witnesses its bloodiest day ever, as the number of Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip rises to 25.
"

Should I list all the terrorist attack which resulted in an Israeli death toll higher than 25?

Palestinian i would like to let you know that your posts don't go unheaded, the general consensus may believe your posts are propaganda (and what do you expect trying to explain concepts very challenging to these nationalists?) If you persevere you may get through to those with above room temperature IQ's

Using concepts such as violence / revenge as an instinctual characteristic of humanity is probably the most effective way to convey this information. Although we all have very different ideals, we have the same collective instincts, our own perception of justice.

I often draw comparisons between the Likud party and certain national socialist parties of old, not to incite indignant invective, but to show that none of us are any different and our ideals are completely circumstantial. If melech_mike / djbaron were raised in impoverished Palestine they would be first in line to take justice into their own hands..

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy this simple arguement is basicly what it winds down to. anyway you look at it the misery that is befacing the palestinians today could all just go away if the terrorists deside to disband completely. no more israeli state terrorism, no more civilian casualties, no more propertie damage, no more road blocks. Israel has proven that it can be held as a responsible peaceful neighbour when relations are friendly (ie Egypt, Jordan). On the other hand if israel were to stop its self defense it would be only a matter of seconds before terrorists take advantage of the lowered secuirty (ie suicide bombings following the oslo accords). palestine has so much to gain by fixing the terrorism that resides within their power. israel has so much to lose if it does not defend itself.

what about the many years before the uprising began? before anyone took up arms? no deal was reached then

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If anyone can get me the following records please contact me:

DJ Tiesto - Battleship Grey (Miro remix)
Tilt - Invisible (Tilt's human mix)

quote:

Originally posted by tathi Palestinian i would like to let you know that your posts don't go unheaded, the general consensus may believe your posts are propaganda (and what do you expect trying to explain concepts very challenging to these nationalists?) If you persevere you may get through to those with above room temperature IQ's Using concepts such as violence / revenge as an instinctual characteristic of humanity is probably the most effective way to convey this information. Although we all have very different ideals, we have the same collective instincts, our own perception of justice. I often draw comparisons between the Likud party and certain national socialist parties of old, not to incite indignant invective, but to show that none of us are any different and our ideals are completely circumstantial. If melech_mike / djbaron were raised in impoverished Palestine they would be first in line to take justice into their own hands..

You are very intelligent tathi, thanks

As for the others,
Palestinians ended the first uprising in 1993 to give Israel a chance to stop its aggression. The Americans would never even think of stopping their revolution to give Britain a chance back then. You're not supposed to give the murderer a chance when you revolt against him, but we have. We gave 9 years of Oslo. Israeli military kept killing civilians. They kept torturing people. Even before the first uprising, Israel wouldn't recognize Palestinian right to self determination. Who are you trying to deceive? We have let down our weapons countless times. You just don't hear about it. You only hear about it when some Hamas member has revenge. There's a lot more to it than that. Why should a defenseless people stop resisting the fourth most powerful military in the world that keeps taking their land, destroying farms, orchards, homes and trees? On what basis will the Israeli military end its occupation fully if we stop? Whenever negotiations happen, Israel takes more land and the wall keeps being built and more people are denied access to hospitals and schools. We have announced that if you end the occupation we will not fight you. And what do you mean Israel will cease to exist? Think about what you're saying. IT'S THE FOURTH MOST POWERFUL MILITARY IN THE WORLD. AGAINST ONE OF THE WEAKEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. GO back to Israel. Take your tanks, soldiers, roadblocks, checkpoints, settlements, your wall, your curfews, your collective punishments and extrajudicial assissinations, your gas grenades, and go back to Israel. Reinforce the border if you wish. But please, tell that annoying helicopter to move away from above my grandfather's house. His face turns yellow with fright every time he hears it hovering above the house. Get off my land.

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*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

Well, all I'll say it's nice to finally have a person who can shed some light on the conflict from the palestinian side. It'll be interesting to see how the situation will develop.

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1+1=10