quote:

Originally posted by rainbow_marble You believe George Bush is making the Constitution worthless... Bold comment to say if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Tell me exactly how he is making it worthless? Making a military state?

Not really sure, but if you guys mean "police state" in the Orwellian sense, then I think Bush is definetely moving towards it at full steam. The amount of "tab-keeping" that the government does is pretty big, and all of that is done in the name of "fighting terrorism".

If fighting the people (terrorists) that "attack our freedom" means that you destory the freedom, will you not loose by default?

About the "Maybe you should move?" part:
Why should he? I mean, he wants to improve the things that he thinks are wrong in this country, and he is entiteld to doing so.
I am not really proud to be German either; currently I feel that there isn't really much to Germany. Unfortunately, the structures that keep us (Germans) from recovering are so deeply entrechned that I don't see recovery coming up in any near future, hence I am moving out. Still I am voting for the party that I consider the most likly candidate for recovery, I am just working towards having an exit option on hand, in case things get worse.

quote:

If anything, strong liberals want the constitution to be worthless. They believe in very strong, large national government and for the regular individual to be nearly worthless.

so tell me, what does LIBERAL mean? I heard that it means free, if you desire freedom, how can you want a strong national government? I see the Bush administration moving towards that much more than anyone else, looking at the Department of GeStaPo..err I mean Department of Homeland Security

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

Well, we certainly are losing our freedoms under the current administration. They're basically stripping away our constitutional rights one by one. If you can't see or understand that then something has to be wrong with you.

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/civil_liberties/


Here's a good book for you to read:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books

copied from the net:

As the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution reflect, individuals have the natural and God-given right to live their lives any way they choose, so long as their conduct is peaceful. It is the duty of government to protect, not destroy, these inherent and inalienable rights.

Thus, for well over a century, the American people said "No" to such anti-free-market government policies as income taxation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, immigration controls, economic regulations, drug laws, gun control, and public schooling. Despite the tragic exception of slavery, the result was the most prosperous, healthy, literate, and compassionate society in history. Unfortunately, in the 20th century, our country has moved in an opposite direction. Operating through the IRS, DEA, ATF, INS, FDA, FTC , and a multitude of other bureaucracies, our government has waged immoral and destructive wars on our freedom, our property, and our well-being.

quote:

Originally posted by rainbow_marble If anything, strong liberals want the constitution to be worthless. They believe in very strong, large national government and for the regular individual to be nearly worthless.

And what world are you talking about? Surely not ours. Maybe you're confusing liberalism with communism, because most liberals still want capitalism and free trade... and not so much government intervention, just the OPPOSITE of what you are saying.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X copied from the net: Thus, for well over a century, the American people said "No" to such anti-free-market government policies as income taxation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, immigration controls, economic regulations, drug laws, gun control, and public schooling.

But not having public schooling is -imho- a poor choice. The major problem with governmental regulation is striking the healthy balance.

And the US is currently moving away from that balance.. so is germany

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

quote:

Originally posted by rainbow_marble Your statement shows that you know very little or close to nothing about politics. Bush, Ashcroft and Rumsfield want anything but a dictatorship... They are combatting those who believe that our freedom is the root of all evil. Those people who ran planes into our towers are the ones im talking about. You believe George Bush is making the Constitution worthless... Bold comment to say if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Tell me exactly how he is making it worthless? Making a military state? Perhaps the War in Iraq came a little early, however it was needed. Hussein was a madman... killing his own people, funding terrorist groups (terrorist groups in Israel) and running a Totalitarian Dictatorship. Once Ibrihim al Jafari and his Cabinet gets Iraq up and running again, they will be much more prosperous than they ever were, perhaps even able to set an example for other Middle East countries. If anything, strong liberals want the constitution to be worthless. They believe in very strong, large national government and for the regular individual to be nearly worthless. They do not want anyone super wealthy, nor anyone in horrible poverty, but more of a balanced sense. To some that may sound nice, but it also is one step closer to Communism. Im sorry that you are ashamed to be an American. Maybe you should move?

The truth is there is no such as thing as pure democracy. call me a conspiracy theorist, ut we do live in a quasi-dictatorship, and we aways will. we will never know true freedom, because true freedom is anarchy, it's freedom from everything.
I believe that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (rumsfeld, cheney, ashcroft and condi) and the dumbass Bush are trying to suck up every last iota of powe they can find. i know you're gonna argue with me, but face it, that the society we live in.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 I believe that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (rumsfeld, cheney, ashcroft and condi) and the dumbass Bush are trying to suck up every last iota of powe they can find. i know you're gonna argue with me, but face it, that the society we live in.

and why wouldn't they? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 and why wouldn't they? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

exactly my point. altho with these guys, they make it more obvious than past leaders.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 exactly my point. altho with these guys, they make it more obvious than past leaders.

Bingo!

THEY ARE the incompetents for thinking that ALL U.S. Citizens are sheep. Many of us never grew the wool that they want to pull over our eyes.


http://www.infotoday.com/searcher/jun03/drake.shtml

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Bingo! THEY ARE the incompetents for thinking that ALL U.S. Citizens are sheep. Many of us never grew the wool that they want to pull over our eyes.

the question is:
Are ENOUGH U.S. Citizens sheep so that they can get away with it?

I pray not :S

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

Whoah this thread got big pretty quickly. At any rate, :

quote:

The truth is there is no such as thing as pure democracy. call me a conspiracy theorist, ut we do live in a quasi-dictatorship, and we aways will. we will never know true freedom, because true freedom is anarchy, it's freedom from everything. I believe that the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (rumsfeld, cheney, ashcroft and condi) and the dumbass Bush are trying to suck up every last iota of powe they can find. i know you're gonna argue with me, but face it, that the society we live in.

You must know better ... come on.

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