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Originally posted by DigiNut I'm still waiting to hear a LOGICAL explanation for why this can be considered disgusting and wrong.

I'm affraid there's no such thing as a logical explanation for this case. That poster represents something that is abstract, our morality is abstract, and the way we each interpret what we see is abstract. So all this together leaves little to logics or black and white situations.

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In fact, how does displaying the sexuality of any women equate to exploiting them? Does a poster of them kissing automatically imply that they're not good for anything else? How is this morally wrong? Since when did porn - and that poster isn't even showing skin - become hatred of women?

Its not hatred, its degrading. You put 2 girls in a poster that kisses each other, and we all know what kind of ideas men get. It transforms those women into sexual toys and the girl who saw it has the right to bitch after it.

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Originally posted by brunette that is %^&*( ridiculous they can legalize gay marriages, they can be publicly affectionate but that, that is unacceptable I don't see the poster being in any way repugnant, distasteful or offensive

Well said, exactly my point! Gay and Lesbian Community of University of Waterloo also has EXACTLY the same poster hanging in their office, and nobody tried to take it down!
Not to mention that this poster was bought in Student Life Center in our university during traditional sale of posters in the begining of each semster.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut In fact, how does displaying the sexuality of any women equate to exploiting them? Does a poster of them kissing automatically imply that they're not good for anything else? How is this morally wrong? Since when did porn - and that poster isn't even showing skin - become hatred of women?

well i think you for the most part see my point. but if you dont think this is true then ask yourself this. would it be alright if they posted a picture of two girls fucking each other with a dildoe? would that be alright? or what about a guy slapping a girl in the face with his dick and cumming in her eye. would you have any problem if the university asked for that to be removed? i mean afterall they chose to do that right? they weren't forced to do that. Does a poster of a girl with cum in her face imply shes good for anything else? I think you know you wouldnt make much of a fuss if they didnt allow that. I dont think you would want porn posted on the wall in your baby sisters nursury school. I dont think you would like somebody forcing your mother to look at bondage porno. You know full well sex can at times be offensive. When its offensive is different for everyone, but the fact is you see it CAN be offensive. And if it offends that girl whether you like it or not i think as a sign of respect to her you should simply take it down. Its about respect. Respect for your sisters and mothers and other women in society.

Its not just a picture of two women kissing. Its a picture of two half naked models making out in bed. It may not offend you or me but it seems to have offended somebody. I think her right to come to a comfortable environment outweighs your right to jerk off in class.

IF you want to make a point of this, put up a non erotic photo of a man and woman kissing.

if nobody complains, put the other back up. They complain about, then they are being unjust and SHOULDNT be able to have anything done about it.

that doenst mean that nothing would happen, but it should set a precedant/standard.

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Retired TA.

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Originally posted by ahlamalek I'm affraid there's no such thing as a logical explanation for this case. That poster represents something that is abstract, our morality is abstract, and the way we each interpret what we see is abstract. So all this together leaves little to logics or black and white situations. Its not hatred, its degrading. You put 2 girls in a poster that kisses each other, and we all know what kind of ideas men get. It transforms those women into sexual toys and the girl who saw it has the right to bitch after it.

good points man

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Originally posted by ahlamalek I'm affraid there's no such thing as a logical explanation for this case. That poster represents something that is abstract, our morality is abstract, and the way we each interpret what we see is abstract. So all this together leaves little to logics or black and white situations.

So basically what you're saying is that it's subjective. Thus, whose opinion is more important - the people who are in the lab 16 hours a day, or some ditz who happened to be passing by and will probably never go there again?

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Its not hatred, its degrading. You put 2 girls in a poster that kisses each other, and we all know what kind of ideas men get. It transforms those women into sexual toys and the girl who saw it has the right to bitch after it.

Yes, we know what kind of ideas men get, but how does that make the women sexual toys? There is something missing in the logic here, and that something is basically being filled in by the daily brainwashing we've gotten every day of our lives. Question your beliefs. What are they really based on?

Discojoe: Your point is well-taken, but where do you draw the line? A lot of things can be interpreted as sexual. A century ago, nude paintings were all the rage... now they're just pornographic. This debate has been going on for a long time in politics and has never quite been resolved, so don't try to portray it as so black-and-white here... there is a fine line between "art" and "porn" and it's really hard to say where that line is.

Didn't see j-spot's post until now, but that's similar to my point... I'd like to see how the same people react to an ordinary kissing photo.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Discojoe: Your point is well-taken, but where do you draw the line? A lot of things can be interpreted as sexual. A century ago, nude paintings were all the rage... now they're just pornographic. This debate has been going on for a long time in politics and has never quite been resolved, so don't try to portray it as so black-and-white here... there is a fine line between "art" and "porn" and it's really hard to say where that line is.

My whole point is that its not black and white. I really think you were trying to make it black and white. It is sensorship and therefore is wrong. There is a 'relative' fine line between art and porn. Again my point is somebody thought that poster crossed that line (and understandably so) and it bothered her. Again I think her right to a comfortable envrironment outweighs those students right to sexual excitement in a class room.
Sometimes the right to feedom of expression outweighs somebody elses right to comfortability. In this case it doesnt plain and simple. There are some kinds of sensorship issues worth raising arms to. This particular one isnt.

i see that poster around campus but it dont last too long in one spot...

what she finds OFFENSIVE is that she is probably too unattractive to be in a picture like that, so she doesnt want anybody else looking at those girls.. to that girl: taking that poster down wont make you any more attractive sorry

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Originally posted by discojoe My whole point is that its not black and white. I really think you were trying to make it black and white. It is sensorship and therefore is wrong. There is a 'relative' fine line between art and porn. Again my point is somebody thought that poster crossed that line (and understandably so) and it bothered her. Again I think her right to a comfortable envrironment outweighs those students right to sexual excitement in a class room.

I'm sorry, but where does the charter guarantee a "right to a comfortable environment?"

You're saying one person's morals outweighs the morals of 20 other people? Why, because those 20 other people are all men? I'm not seeing how, just because SHE says they crossed the line, it means that they DID cross it.

If several women who routinely used the lab had complained about this, then I could understand... but one girl, who rarely uses it? Come on...

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Originally posted by jdjd i see that poster around campus but it dont last too long in one spot... what she finds OFFENSIVE is that she is probably too unattractive to be in a picture like that, so she doesnt want anybody else looking at those girls.. to that girl: taking that poster down wont make you any more attractive sorry

This is a very cynical and, I'm sure many would say, inappropriate response to the issue, but I'm sorry to say I think it's probably true.


P.S. It's censorship!!

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

P.S. It's censorship!! [/QUOTE]

ya haha im still recovering from last joints...

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Originally posted by DigiNut I'm sorry, but where does the charter guarantee a "right to a comfortable environment?" You're saying one person's morals outweighs the morals of 20 other people? Why, because those 20 other people are all men? I'm not seeing how, just because SHE says they crossed the line, it means that they DID cross it.

where does the charter say a university can't control whats put on its walls?

she wasnt the one who asked for the poster to be removed remember. It was a whole commitee of people. Some of whom included men. they were obviously thought the poster was distasteful too.

I can't believe the 'come on' arguement... Come on its just a fucking poster. Is it really a loss to the world if the university doesnt want porn on its walls? Come on man is it really a big issue?