quote:

Occrider I think you're wasting your time with this guy (as we all are), but I'd like to see some of his evidence as well.

What there are four or five of you and I heard a copule of Americans agree with me? And not everyone that has posted in this thread disagrees with me. They just disagree with the way I present them. Fair enough but it sickens me the way you guys present some of yoru views..you always like to think you are fair and balanced . which is part of your problem...it is why people have a problem with america too!

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music is worth living for

Lets also start getting into some of the ex soviet republics that have enourmous human rights violations and corruption that are being reported but the US government turns a blind eye to all of this because they are beinfical to what the US government wants right now More hippocrisy!!

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music is worth living for

quote:

Originally posted by 2hardcore4u It's actually you guys I am wasting my time with and alot of people think so from some of the private respones that I have gotten. That I am wasting my time and I wouldn;t ever change your minds...which I won't ...

It would do you more credit not to assume so much about those whom you do not know. Many people here have changed my mind about things, only because they back up their opinions and statements with evidence. So far, you have only thrown out unsupported assertions. That gives you no credibility to me whatsoever.

quote:

Anyways I am not going to do you the favour of doing rsearch you should be doing

Wrong, sir. You threw out YOUR opinions and assertions, therefore it is YOU who has the burden of proof, not me or anyone else. We're riding on your dime, so make your call worthy.

quote:

...but here you can look up the percentages of democrats voted against liberal legislation and in favour of republican legislation Go look at the coiting records for the year 2000 . SOurce : AMERICANS FOR DEMOCRATIC ACTION. You as nation are #1 in the following areas among the industrial nations 1. millionaires 2.. billionaires 3. military spending 4. firearm deaths 5. Carbon Dioxide emissions 6. total per capita waste 7.. hazardous waste produced 8. oil consumption 9. natural gas consumption 10. lowest voter turnout 11. redcorded rapes 12. injuries and deaths from road accidents 13. births to mothers under the age of twenty 14. number of international human rights treaties not signed 15. execution of child offenders 16. likelyhood of children under 15 to die from gunfire 17. becoming the first society where the poorest popultaion are children Hmm i'd say there is alot wrong..not just a little

Well finally, you have a source! Thank you very much! Okay, I'm going to assume you got this from the website, http://www.adaction.org. Again, it would do you credit to have a link like this so others could read the info. for themselves. Now, you have here a list of facts, now could you tie all these facts together to support your assertion? Are there any statistics or research that tie in these facts to support your original assertion? In other words, what is the likelihood of these facts to support your assertion? I'd say that you have a hard time presenting such data, primarily because there is none.

Okay, so, do you have any other data to support your claims? Again, it's not that I disagree with your opinions. But if you're going to give generalizations and hold such a cocky arrogant attitude, I would expect you to back up such an attitude and generalizations with solid empirical evidence.

By the way, I'm a big Nader supporter. I thoroughly enjoyed "Crashing the Party". I would also highly suggest "Corporation Nation" by Charles Derber with a forward by Nader, Chomsky's "Understanding Power: The Indespensable Chomsky", and Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy". All very liberal writers, but all worth a good read.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Just a little piece of advice: Creating 5 messages in a row is indicative of trolling. You would do yourself a little more credit to tie all of these posts into 1 post. Unless, of course, you're merely trying to up your post count - which is unfortunately all too common.

And I also might predict in my crystal ball that Neo might be closing this thread just like he did the last one you created. So again, if you want to do yourself more credit, please give links and evidence to support your assertions.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Well here we go then let's start with ridiculous statements by people against me....how has the slaughter and mis treatment of American Natives been benefical?

quote:

EDIT: I ought to add though, as a Native American I wouldn't kick out the Europeans who moved in, simply because I think their presence has been beneficial. If it was not however, yeah, I would expect them to leave.

America's policies towards native Americans has been filled with broken promises and lies. It seems clear that for a good portion of our history the following words clearly did not apply to the native American: "All men are created free and equal, that they are endowed with certain inalienable rights and that among these rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

1787 - The Northwest Ordinance - The ordinance stated that Indians were to be treated with the "utmost good faith" and specified that "their lands and property shall never be taken away from them without their consent." As settlers pushed forward into occupied Indian territory, however, they received military protection. As governor of Indiana William Henry Harrison threatened, bribed and purposely intoxicated Indians. He was opposed by Tecumseh who began to organize an Indian Confederation. In 1811 and 1812 Harrison fought and defeated Tecumseh at the battle of Tippecanoe.



1819 - The purchase of Florida - For years Indians had fled south to Florida to escape American authorities. There the Spanish were powerless to control the Indians where a new tribe was formed called the Seminoles. The Seminoles, comprised of both native Americans and escaped slaves began to raid American settlements and then escape back into Spanish territory. In 1818 Andrew Jackson led a raid on Florida, captured two Spanish forts and crushed the Seminoles. Fearing the loss of their territory without compensation the Spanish sold Florida to the United States whereupon the Seminoles were swiftly moved to a reservation in central Florida.



1828 - Cherokee Nation vs. Georgia - In 1828 the Cherokee, a "civilized" tribe who had lived in peace working as farmers, building houses and roads found gold on their land. As a result white settlers moved in and the State of Georgia claimed jurisdiction over the Cherokee. The Cherokee sued claiming they were independent from Georgia. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Cherokee. The victory was short lived, however, as President Andrew Jackson in response to the Courts decision is reputed to have said, "John Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it." Instead the federal government removed the Indians to Oklahoma.



1830 - Indian Removal Act - This act authorized the President to negotiate treaties and remove the remaining Eastern Indians to lands west of the Mississippi. Under Presidents Andrew Jackson and Martin Van Buren, federal agents again used threats, bribes and liquor to secure Indian consent to one sided treaties. The federal government removed thousands of Indians, some in chains, on a trip marked by hunger, disease and death. This became known as the "trail of tears." By the late 1840's almost all native Americans had been moved to lands west of the Mississippi.



1877 - President Rutherford B. Hayes in a message to Congress said, "Many, if not most of our Indian wars have had their origin in broken promises and acts of injustice on our part." In 1881 Helen Hunt Jackson further helped awaken white Americans to their shameful treatment of the Indians through her book A Century of Dishonor.



1860 - 1890's - Plains Indians Wars - During this period Americans and plains Indians clashed as Americans attempted to force Indians onto reservations. The battles are highlighted by the Battle of Little Bighorn, where Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer and his regiment of 250 where all killed by approximately 4500 Sioux and Cheyenne warriors and the battle at Wounded Knee where thousands of Cheyenne men, women and children were slaughtered by the American Calvary. Wounded Knee represented the end of any real armed resistance on the part of the Native American.



1887 - The Dawes Act - The act provided for the following:

1. Each Indian family head be allotted a 160 acre farm out of reservation lands.

2. Each new land owner who abandoned tribal practices and adopted the "habits of civilized life" would be granted American citizenship.

3. "Surplus" reservation lands would be made available to sell to white settlers.

The Dawes Act, while well intentioned, did not benefit the Indians. The lands they were assigned were poor and the concept of "Americanization" led to a destruction of Indian culture and the destruction of the traditional status of Indian women in tribal life. Finally, as a result of the "surplus" land provision the Indians lost 90 million out of 140 acres of reservation land.

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music is worth living for

quote:

was born in Hong Kong and lived there for 2 years. I lived in Jakarta, Indonesia for 4 years. I lived in Brussels, Belgium for 4 years. I lived in Vienna, Austria for 3 years. During my tenure overseas I've visited every single West European country (with the exception of Scandanavia/Ireland/Portugal), and I've been to most Eastern European countries (Budapest has/had a duncan donuts, Bucharest has/had a K-mart, Nuremburg is just plain awesome with an American PX, I love that bridge in Prague, and in fuckin Warsaw the burger king gave me food poisoning), and perhaps to Drug Tito's amusement we even vacationed on a Croatian island once (don't remember the name of the island ... I only vaguely remember passing through Split)

Im just going to start here too occrider because to live like this you have to have money. You just don;t moive to Jakarta and I suspect you never actually associated yourself with any real indonesian people or any people that had no money. You jsound exactly like the americans I am talking about ...

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music is worth living for

quote:

who are you to be in a position to say that the US has the most problems in the developed world? your posts come off as being very arrogant and overly judgemantal, not to mention you give off the impression that you are not here to learn but to preach - unaccepting of other's opions. you will notice people are a lot more responsive and less defensive to your views if you start presenting yourself with less aggresive posts and blanket statements

Who is the US to go and invade Iraq and defy the UN and the majoority of the world? Your governement runs amok and then people like you sit back and try to defend it? You are right I am not learning anything from you...enough bedtime...Ill continue tommorow unless I get banned from here soon.

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music is worth living for

quote:

Originally posted by 2hardcore4u Im just going to start here too occrider because to live like this you have to have money. You just don;t moive to Jakarta and I suspect you never actually associated yourself with any real indonesian people or any people that had no money. You jsound exactly like the americans I am talking about ...

To be blunt, you need to stop acting like a dickhead. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to assume stereotypes about anyone here, and this needs to stop now. Did it ever occur to you that his family might be in the military? That's just one possibility, but you need to understand my drift. To go from one assumption to another on a poster here who hold a great deal of credibility is quite erroneous and immature of you.

I would surmise that you are slowly moving from thread closures to banning. Please be careful in your stereotypes and assumptions from here on out.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by 2hardcore4u Who is the US to go and invade Iraq and defy the UN and the majoority of the world? Your governement runs amok and then people like you sit back and try to defend it? You are right I am not learning anything from you...enough bedtime...Ill continue tommorow unless I get banned from here soon.

Sounds like you're just begging this to happen. What good would that really serve for you? I am genuinely interested in your assertions, and would not want to see you banned just yet, provided you support yourself. However, if a banning is truly what you are in hopes of attaining, be careful what you wish for. So far your posts are nothing shy of trolling - and that's not looked too kindly here for long.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by 2hardcore4u Im just going to start here too occrider because to live like this you have to have money. You just don;t moive to Jakarta and I suspect you never actually associated yourself with any real indonesian people or any people that had no money. You jsound exactly like the americans I am talking about ...

*clap clap clap*

Oh you are good. You are really damned good. I was giving up on this thread, but you managed to troll me into posting.

Well ok joker, I'll bite. My father was a foreign service officer. Here are the pay grades for an fso:

http://www.opm.gov/oca/03tables/html/gs.asp

After 4 years of college they start you off somewhere around the low to mid 30's. Then they slowly bump you up miniscule amounts year after year after year ... far far less than the private sector. But you're right, I NEVER interacted with the people of Indonesia ... or ANY people with no money for that matter. WHenever I meet someone new I always ask them how much they're worth ... many don't meet my standards of wealth so I just tell them to feck off.

But at any rate, someone call my loan institutions to tell them the school loans I'm saddled with for the next 10 years are not a problem. The money is just BLOWING out of my ass!

Sigh ... looks like Neo might be busy here.

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Retro ...

ohh with the military that's even better......I don't care about being a dickhead here..you might have guessed that alreadY
You''re are the country with the most dickheads per capita ..hmmm there a stat too that I can;t prove is there? And Amrerican military in Hong kong no ..but in the Philipines yes:

Let us not forget that during the Philippine-American war, approximately 700,000 Filipinos including women and children were massacred by the American troops.

Let us not forget that during the presence of 1947-1991 US military bases, human rights violations were rampant. This will only breed more social costs and social problems such as prostitution, drug abuse, and other anti-social activities

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music is worth living for