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Originally posted by Heinz debunk me right now. both of you. you told me you could do it so do it. prove and explain how a ball of matter came out of nothing and exploded into an extremly complex universe so complex we cant comprehend it.

You are asking us to prove our theories, yet you cannot prove your own. Prove how it was god who created universe.

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dont give me bullshit DigiNut. give me truth. i gave you evidence that made sense. its all comes together. im not laughing the face of science. actually science is supporting my theory. gigantic flood=gigantic ecological changes that cant be brought on by an astroid.

Diginut gave you a very good link that explains how the Noah's arc theory is false on many grounds. I see you haven't read it, because if you were, you wouldn't be making comets such as these. Now, for the asteroid thing, you are absolutely wrong. When an asteroid hits, it raises huge amount of dust into the air, and that dust can stay there for years. It obscures sunlight and might cause the ice age if there is enough of it. A gigantic flood, on the other hand, would not cause an ice age. Besides, where did the water go anyway? If you read the Diginut's link, you'll see there is a huge amount of water that somehow just disappeared.

There is a believable theory on the origin of Noah's arc myth, and it says that the great flood was the creation of the black sea. It states that the black sea was an indentation below the sea level, and the sea from the mediterranean poured into it a several thousand years ago. There is some evidence that supports that theory, as some remnants of human habitats have been found at the bottom of that sea. The tales of a horrible flood were then told over and over, got inverted and dostorted, and were finally written in the bible.

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.....again, dont give me bullshit, give me your evidence. i wont even bother reading it, if i see anything personally critisizing me, for its worthless garbage, and i can see that ive already wont he battle. thank you

I'm happy to see you are so confident of yourself, but please, try to use your brain and think a little about what we are saying before you start making comments such as this one.

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1+1=10

again, you strike me with your knowledge. i didnt see digi's link, so ill see it now, ill post a repsonse in a little while.

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Originally posted by Heinz again, you strike me with your knowledge.

Aww, now, you're making me blush. I guess it's because i'm an EE

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1+1=10

Last edited by DrUg_Tit0 on Jan-04-2004 at 23:24

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Originally posted by Heinz YO, im not taking ANY chances. in my mind, i cant see how god cant exist. ironies tell me. such as, anatomy class. a few of us students who had A's and B's in this class got to go on a field trip in the morge, and watch an autopsy. many were grossed out, but i was intrigued. everything fit perfectly together. every organ had a purpose, every vessals was in its right place, every muscle had a specific movement to carry out and nothing more, nothing less. i cant possibly see just how by chance, a few particles of dirt evolved into the many millions, maybe billions of species of animals and oragnisms, each one as complex as the next.

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Originally posted by Heinz Another point. The Big Bang Theory. Totally false. It states that once there was nothing, then there was something. Now, some of you may say, there was a big mass of matter that exploded. Well, tell me how this mass of matter was created. It simply didnt appear out of nothing. because if it did, then that would be bad. because if nothing can explode into something, ide be scard. eating a bowl of cherrios and BOOM, im on the floor. nothing exploded into something and little universe starts to form in the middle of my living room.

Hey guess what, the Earth is flat ... wait actually it's a sphere. Hey guess what, energy is a continous wave ... actually it's in quantom particles, what's going on??? Simply put, it appears you have a limited concept of theoretical physics so I would cease to apply basic knowledge to extremely complex, highly intiuitive, theoretical concepts and isntead ask for explanations instead.

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Another point. The Big Bang Theory. Totally false. It states that once there was nothing, then there was something. Now, some of you may say, there was a big mass of matter that exploded. Well, tell me how this mass of matter was created. It simply didnt appear out of nothing. because if it did, then that would be bad. because if nothing can explode into something, ide be scard. eating a bowl of cherrios and BOOM, im on the floor. nothing exploded into something and little universe starts to form in the middle of my living room.

Sigh, so how did God arise out of nothing? Apply the same circular reasoning to any concept and you arise at the same answer. The intelligent answer is that nobody knows. Physics changes on a constant basis. Perhaps there is NO origin of any sort. Time is AS RELATIVE as matter is. Why do people not understand this????

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the bible says god is "alpha & omega". which is a praise to him, saying that he is the beginning and end. and out of this, a scholar will come to the conclusion that god has no beginning and he has no end. therefore, evolution cannot be proved right, because how can there be a beginning from nothing. therefore think to yourself, "Heinz just proved evolution wrong, big bang too, or HAS at least gave a strong arguement for creationism against evolution and for the existance of god." really, out of the explanation ive given, this mass of atomic matter exploding, you must think of the big picture. what created this atomic matter to begin with??? cannot be explained by any scientist, and is beyond human comprehension. therefore, i can prove the existance of god by this, several times in the bible, its states that god has no beginning and no end. alpha, omega....i cant really give you specific passages because i dont really study it thouroughly, but look for yourself. lastly, scientific evidence for creationism. the Ice Ages. Noah's Ark. the Great flood that left noah inside of his ark. now, think about it. a great flood that covers the highest mountain and reaches for the sky. think about the drastic ecological changes brought on by such a catastrophic event. plants....wiped out, mass extinction of all life, (except for the ark animals), massive land changes. grand canyons, lakes, oceans, everything changing drastically in the extreme. such a phenomenon could cause an Ice Age, and is very likely to have. just think of how deep the water must have been. AT LEAST 16 MILES DOWN. think of how strong the currents must have been. you watch floods on tv, and see how the currents take cars away and drag people under. think of a flood that covers the entire earth and how geologically these currents would change the shape of the earth. the dinosaur theory, of how an astroid collided with earth and killed off all the dinosaurs, but SOMEHOW early mammals survived and not the dinosaurs. that cant be explained by these scientists. the flood as we know it, killed everything except what was on noah's ark. the world would have been entirely different from the pre-flood days. many species of animals would have become extinct on the outset, for how can an animal living in a warm tropical climate, humid, now all of a sudden enter into this totally different world away from its intended habitat. many would die off of course. the humongous dinosaurs of the pre-flood era the first. as since everything died off in the flood. the food supply is cut so dramatically that it cant support such massive animals. the book of JOB in the bible describes such an animal, "a behemoth(very large object/animal) with a tail that swayed like a cedar tree." now back in the times of JOB, the area now called lebanon, there used to be gaint forests of humongous cedar trees, now all destroyed but rivaling that of the red woods of california.

Already addressed by many before me. Please provide references and evidence as refutation as others have done before you.

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by NeoPhono My problem is when religions take their sacred writings literally, an example being creationism. In my opinion religions are nothing more than philosphies with rituals and a strong study of their own history. Therefore, the most important thing a religion can give someone is its underlying philosophical message, not a step by step guide to "salvation." I'm catholic, but I consider relgion to be a philosophy I live by, not a set of instructions. I don't believe in creationism, hell even if half the stuff in the bible didn't happen, I wouldn't care. It's about the overall message it's trying to show. I don't see any difference between someone practicing a religion in this way and someone who reads Nietzsche or Confucious or any other philosopher and tries to live their life in that way. At least I don't think there should be any difference.

Word

I personally don't believe in any religion, but you raise a good point.

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Originally posted by occrider Sigh, so how did God arise out of nothing? Apply the same circular reasoning to any concept and you arise at the same answer. The intelligent answer is that nobody knows. Physics changes on a constant basis. Perhaps there is NO origin of any sort. Time is AS RELATIVE as matter is. Why do people not understand this????

Why Occ but he is God so therefore no other answer is needed Pose this question to a religous person and you'll hear of Adam and Eve, certainly sounds more credible than any Big Bang

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Can't do it...

Must resist the temptation......

Must stay away from thread!!!!!!!!!

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Natural selection favors complexity as the more complex species usually survive more easily and are therefore capable of having more offspring.

Not always the case - NS doesn't have to necessarily favor complexity per se. Just favors that which is fittest to survive, more often than not that species is "complex", though not always so.

Sorry for being anal. I'm done now.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Not always the case - NS doesn't have to necessarily favor complexity per se. Just favors that which is fittest to survive, more often than not that species is "complex", though not always so. Sorry for being anal. I'm done now.

Well, if we're going to be anal, then I'll have to point out to you that I said usually, not always.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, if we're going to be anal, then I'll have to point out to you that I said usually, not always.

Doohh!

Got me there.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Congratulations, you did a fantastic job of consolidating all the ridiculous logical fallacies and debunked Christian science theories that make up dogmatic Creationism. The flood especially - Noah's ark - is a complete joke: Noah's Ark - a sinking ship. You have to be truly stubborn - not faithful - to deny all that and believe in an ark. THAT is the problem with religion. People who laugh in the face of science just because they want to believe in something else. You find science, which relies on facts and reason, suspicious and dubious - but you think Genesis, which is nothing more than a bunch of interconnected stories, all of which are fully unsubstantiated, might be true? Right, somehow you just "know" better than all the nonbelievers... Let me say it again - if you want to believe in religion, FINE - but please don't try to present "evidence" of why you think it has to be true, because it's all been totally debunked in the past. The only relevance of religion in today's world is to teach people morals, not the origins of a 5000-year-old universe and definitely not the explanations of well-understood scientific phenomena.

hey you try to sound so smart. if you're so smart, why don't you disprove the proof i posted on the existence of god.