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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Brazil tit for tat visa policy.
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NYCTrancefan
Destination Everywhere!



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: New York City in a Café del Mar mood

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
I'm aware of the fact that there are cooperation programmes between our countries. However, this sort of relationship is not so simple, and a dualistic view of "good" and "bad" cannot be applied here, since good actions don't neutralise bad actions this way. In the end of day, there are still hard feelings because of people like Dale Hersh...



... who showed our authorities that the middle finger is an universal sign (that is the moment when he was getting his ID). Believe us when we say we are as irritated in American airports as you are in Brazilian airports: this is actually the reason that started the whole thing - to protest against the harassment of Brazilian citizens. Were there other ways to solve this problem? If there are, I'd like to know.

As for any countries' internal issues, I don't know whether it's possible to understand them properly unless you experience them (living there) or reading a lot about the history and culture of the place you're talking about. The problem with land rights and Native Americans is not that big (there aren't many left anyway, sadly) when compared to th landless people (Movimento dos Sem-Terra), which are not Native Americans: they're a consequence of how Brazil was colonised by the Portuguese. The same goes for the drug problem: it's far beyond the favelas, having deep roots in the history of the society and government of Rio de Janeiro - even thouh I reckon sending military troops might be a good idea, we live in a democracy, which is a system that sometimes may bring problems if you need harsher measures. Socially, Brazil has still many problems to face, but we're sorting them out as the days pass by.

You may say Lula could do some sort of revolution, doing things faster. No, he can't. If he started to change everything here all of a sudden, it would cause chaos in our economy because of foreign investors (?) and THEN we would have many more problems to deal with.

Ps.: By the way, what does this have to do with this topic? I'm lost now


I figured you would ask me what this has to do with the above topic, the reason I mentioned it is that I would imagine that Lula would be more concerned with the domestic issues as opposed to utilizing the card of "we must stand up to American imperialism" Lula has outlined an agenda that clearly earmarks America as some form of threat to Brazil and has played it up well so far domestically and abroad, meanwhile in Brazil the real issues of social problems are still not being firmly addressed, besides the whole tit for tat policy has all but been put to rest since both nations have gotten the newly inplace respective immigration policies working properly at the airport. If I am going to another country I respect their policies in place to enter their country and if I am delayed so be it, it is after all the airport. I am fully aware of Brazilian history, I wrote a 40+ page thesis for my history degree on Portuguse colonization of Brazil up until its modern history, so I take my interest in Brazil very seriously.

Whatever the numerous reasons may be for Brazil's attitude towards the United States based on historical events and up to todays FTA policies, the attitude and actions of Lula is certainly not helping, just as are those of our own arrogant George W. Bush I get the sense from reading from your commentaries that America has wronged Brazil and the pervading attitude in Brazil today is to hate everything American, is this truly the case and if so then I certainly seem to understand the mindset of current Brazilian policy vis a vis relations with the U.S.


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Old Post Apr-20-2004 17:36  United States
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

Nice to know you're insterested on history and you studied that much about Brazil

Well, Lula is indeed more focused on domestic issues, reason why his name wasn't even mentioned in the article you posted (he gives our international affairs ministry enough independence). However, I don't know if you speak Portuguese, but if you do, read this article, where you can see Lula and Bush talking about this problem. He did go to the White House, but as far as the article says, he didn't get much support from the American government (I wish I could find the same article outside the Brazilian service on BBC, so I could check how biased my source is). This may be one of the reasons why fingerprints are still required, as the article says (I don't know if they still require it).

As for the mindset thing, unfortunately you seem to be right: I even could add personal stories of myself being completely irate after hearing stuff from teachers, magazines and even relatives, when I was a teen (and didn't read as much as I read today).

If you're curious, no, I'm not anti-american (thanks to TA for that, as this site had a great importance in this issue), but I do fear the actions from the White House.

I hope I'm not getting too off-topic now


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Old Post Apr-20-2004 18:31  Brazil
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NYCTrancefan
Destination Everywhere!



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: New York City in a Café del Mar mood

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Nice to know you're insterested on history and you studied that much about Brazil

Well, Lula is indeed more focused on domestic issues, reason why his name wasn't even mentioned in the article you posted (he gives our international affairs ministry enough independence). However, I don't know if you speak Portuguese, but if you do, read this article, where you can see Lula and Bush talking about this problem. He did go to the White House, but as far as the article says, he didn't get much support from the American government (I wish I could find the same article outside the Brazilian service on BBC, so I could check how biased my source is). This may be one of the reasons why fingerprints are still required, as the article says (I don't know if they still require it).

As for the mindset thing, unfortunately you seem to be right: I even could add personal stories of myself being completely irate after hearing stuff from teachers, magazines and even relatives, when I was a teen (and didn't read as much as I read today).

If you're curious, no, I'm not anti-american (thanks to TA for that, as this site had a great importance in this issue), but I do fear the actions from the White House.

I hope I'm not getting too off-topic now


Yeah I read the article and naturally I am not surprise that he received such a greeting from Bush, many leaders often feel this way after meeting him. The latest was probably Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, after meeting Bush and speaking about the Mid-East, a few days later Bush met Israeli PM Sharon and verbally agreed that Israeli settlements could remain in the West Bank in any peace deal.

I know the full history of the U.S. in Central and South America but as far as I see things animosities can provide no solutions to the fundamental problems of the respective nations of the region. I am maybe a bit naive to believe that everyone can get along, thankfully administrations come and go and hopefully in November the one currenly in the White House will be sent packing along with Bush back to Texas. I often am left with the distinct impression that Bush lacks the necessary qualities to conduct himself as leader of this nation based on his attitude, ability to communicate and moreover perhaps the worst political advisors around, how he became president is still a mystery. About half of America also scratch their heads and wonder about the actions of the current administration. I was once a Bush supporter, but now cannot even stand to look back on those days My vote in November will be for Kerry, anyone but Bush for me. I could go on about why I feel this way but that would be another subject entirely.


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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Old Post Apr-20-2004 19:44  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Brazil tit for tat visa policy.
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