wait I just noticed something.. htf (like wtf but with a how) did this thread change from the topic of negotiating with terrorist to racial profiling?



ahhhhHHH ... so that's what the back button is for!

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quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian Borron, they actually show Palestinian homes being demolished on tv in portugal? I'm not surprised you support us. It's so rare, if ever, that they show these things on tv in North America. And if they do show a home being demolished they're quick to mention that it belonged to a suicide bomber, even though homes are demolished everyday and thousands made homeless, not to mention the farms and orchards plowed up and the thousands of trees uprooted-destruction of the economy and livelihood.

Here they show some images in national tv's, and there's one that is pretty much on the israeli side, but has great interviews with israeli ministers, arafat himself, the palestinian PM (can't remember his name) - once the reporter even intervied some members of the Hamas, they took him to a vineyard where they did some shooting to train themselves and a israeli military airplane passed by. They guy almost shit in his pants, as they all had to lay themselves in the ground close to the vines to prevent the plane from seeing them.

But where i see most images is on Euronews. It's like an european CNN, which transmits all over europe, middle east and north africa in 8 or 9 languages. They express pretty much the european POV (they are unbiased, but you can denote a subtle criticism to israel). They have a program which is called "No comment", which are images from that day with no comments at all, just the video.

It's amazing and sickening to watch a giant armoured bulldozer destroy an apartment block, women crying, kids throwing stones at it, then comes an israeli jeep, starts firing bullets at random, hits a little kid, catches a young palestinian and beats the shit out of him... all this lasts about 3 to 5 minutes, with no comments at all. It's like "take your own conclusions".

(BTW, they do the same for images of suicide bombings in Israel - just as sick)

Hamas made it clear today that they fully intend to capture Israeli soldiers to strike deals for the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel, way to go Sharon, now you will have to "bring more boys home" as he termed it in his explanation for the Hezbollah deal. I was the Palestinians I would do the same thing if I see it could secure the release of Palestinians from Israel.

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400 Palestinians = 1 Israeli business man is one way of answering the question, here's another...

Since the second Intifada reupted in 2000, more than 600 Israelis have lost their lives, and over 3000 Palestinians...

So, I make that 1 Israeli = 5 Palestinians...

(BTW, you should be careful what you term as "European anti-semitism" as Ariel Sharon recently stated that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic...which I'm sure everyone will agree is a load of b*ll*x! Europeans criticise Israel yes, but that doesn't mean anti-semitism at all...)

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Hamas made it clear today that they fully intend to capture Israeli soldiers to strike deals for the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel, way to go Sharon, now you will have to "bring more boys home" as he termed it in his explanation for the Hezbollah deal. I was the Palestinians I would do the same thing if I see it could secure the release of Palestinians from Israel.

Well, at least now they may change their strategy from murdering civilians to capturing civilians. But seriously, it was a pretty bad move. Now, I'd understand an 1 on 1 exchange or something like that, but exchanging one israeli for 400 terrorists is really not a very smart move.

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Originally posted by Yoepus this would be "national profiling" then or "Age/sexual profiling", they are not discriminating against you because of your race hence they are not racially profiling you.

how is that not racial profiling? i'm arab. they profiled me as being a terrorist because i'm arab. racial profiling. not that hard of a concept.

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quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 how is that not racial profiling? i'm arab. they profiled me as being a terrorist because i'm arab. racial profiling. not that hard of a concept.

Did you actually read his post? It's got nothing to do with what race you are, it's what area you came from. You came from the middle east. It's a risky area. It's national, not racial. Get it through your head, it makes no more sense to say people are anti-arab than it does to say they're anti-semitic.

Geez, all this whining, save it for elsewhere and keep it on topic. As for the post about 600 Israelis being killed compared to 3000 Palestinians, where is your source? And do you have statistics on how many Israelis/Palestinians were just attacked or critically injured? (since it's harder for the Palestinians to *kill*, given that Israel has more firepower). You're talking about a completely separate issue. The post was literally about a "trade" of prisoners, signifying their relative importance - that really has nothing to do with which state has more members killed in war.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut As for the post about 600 Israelis being killed compared to 3000 Palestinians, where is your source? And do you have statistics on how many Israelis/Palestinians were just attacked or critically injured? (since it's harder for the Palestinians to *kill*, given that Israel has more firepower).

http://www.ifamericansknew.org//stats/injuries.html

24,528 Palestinians* and 6,077 Israelis** have been injured since September 29, 2000.



Proportion: aprox 4:1 (palestine:israel)



http://www.ifamericansknew.org//stats/deaths.html

2,664 Palestinians* and 909 Israelis** have been killed since September 29, 2000.



Proportion: aprox 3:1 (palestine:israel)





"There were actually only 4 Israeli children killed during the first six months of the current uprising. One Israeli child’s death was reported in three different headlines.

In other words, 150% of Israeli children’s deaths and only 5% of Palestinian children’s deaths were reported by the San Francisco Chronicle in headlines and/or the first paragraph of relevant articles."
Source


* This number is from the Palestine Red Crescent Society, a national humanitarian society that provides a wide range of health, social and other humanitarian services for the Palestinian People throughout the Middle East. It is also an observer member in the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC). PRCS statistics

** This number is from Israel’s military, the Israel Defense Forces. IDF statistics


ifamericansknew.org great site

the whole casualties of war arguement is completely pointless, it shows nothing regardling the morality of either side nor which side is more deserving of praise

In WW2 the German suffered more casualties then the Americans and there were more civilians killed on axis grouds then there were on the allied areas, does this mean that the Allies were more evil or that the axis were better because they suffered more casualties? No.

Most of the fighting that exsists is done on palestinian territories, hence we can see a logical conclusion that more palestinians would be killed, does this imply that israel is morally inferior? No.

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quote:

Originally posted by borron In other words, 150% of Israeli children’s deaths and only 5% of Palestinian children’s deaths were reported by the San Francisco Chronicle in headlines and/or the first paragraph of relevant articles."

Yes, but this is the fallacy of statistics, they tell you nothing about the context. First, what is the definition of a child? Someone under 18 I suspect --- thats a very broad range, considering many suicide bombers were "children".

Second, the manner in which Israeli children were killed - babies shot at point blank as a terrorist infiltrates civilian houses - as opposed to children killed by careless fire, is much more morally startilling and so it makes sense there are more headlines about it.



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Back on topic

This trade 400-1 seems very radical to all of us, and even to me, but you I just want you all to understand that amongst Israelis there is this unspeakable bond in such cases where it is understood that the Israeli life or remains hold such great moral value that it must be retained at all expense. Its hard to articulate this feeling, but I haven't found that it exist in many other societies, and would be hard to articulate to those who haven't experienced it.

I think the closest example I can come with that might be fimilar to some people here is the commoradity amongst US militarymen, especially marines, the example of "Blackhawk Down" where against all common sense the servicemen risked their own lives for the bodies of their comrades. Perhaps its a bond that grows due to military service, and since virtually all the Israeli citizerny shares the experience of military service it is so prevelant in its society.

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The Israeli "Wall" will only block Palestinian terrorists if guarded and mined, and travel between the two is banned. Is that the plan? Sounds good, if they plan to use it as a FEBA.

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