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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > American interrogators torture Iraqi prisoners
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by biodigit
Not until he's done searching for the WMDs, behind the furniture in the oval office


Just read Bush's speech. Fairly well done with one small tiny problem - a very pathetic attempt at an apology. In fact, there was none whatsoever.

Now I know Bush probably shouldn't feel compelled to show his own personal responsibility in this whole matter, nor am I going to argue that he is directly responsible (though allowing private contractors to do so much military work like translation and interrogation should have never been allowed, thus he might be somewhat indirectly responsible). So it is understandable that Bush shouldn't apologize personally. But it didn't even seem like he apologized for sympathetic reasons for the atrocities done on these prisoners, and I found that disturbing.

One other thing - unfortunately this does look like the tip of the iceberg. I pointed out that military intelligence and the CIA likely encouraged such interrogations is pretty damning. Well I think another damning issue is surfacing, and that is the private contractors taking over military actions. Specifically, the translation and esp. interrogation of Iraqi prisoners.

The problem with this privatization issue is that it is somewhat difficult to prosecute these contractors. They are not in the military, so the jurisdiction of our military cannot touch them. If they are US citizens, we have international policies set up since our invasion of Panama and arrest of Noriega to arrest and prosecute U.S. citizens who break international laws here in the U.S. However, some of these contractors are NOT U.S. citizens, and they are either subject to whatever laws are in their country and/or subject to disciplinary action of their hired companies. Unfortunately, some companies such as Titan have taken very little, if any, disciplinary action at this time, even with U.S. citizens (an excerpt):

quote:
Contractors Implicated in Prison Abuse Remain on the Job
By JOEL BRINKLEY and JAMES GLANZ
NEW YORK TIMES

Published: May 4, 2004

WASHINGTON, May 3 — More than two months after a classified Army report found that two contract workers were implicated in the abuse of Iraqis at a prison outside Baghdad, the companies that employ them say that they have heard nothing from the Pentagon, and that they have not removed any employees from Iraq.

For one of the employees, the Army report recommended "termination of employment" and revocation of his security clearance. For the other, it urged an official reprimand and review of his security clearance.

But J. P. London, chief executive of CACI, one of the companies involved, said in an interview on Monday that "we have not received any information or direction from the client regarding our work in country — no charges, no communications, no citations, no calls to appear at the Pentagon."

Ralph Williams, vice president for communications for Titan, the other company, also said Monday that the company has heard nothing, and that none of Titan's workers have been recalled.

Military spokesmen in Washington and Baghdad said Monday evening that they had no information on whether the workers were still on the job or why the report had not been conveyed to the companies......

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/04/i...ast/04CONT.html


Although this seems like a strange communication (or stonewalling) issue from the Pentagon, it highlights the problems with disciplinary action on these private contract workers.

I certainly hope for our sake that proper disciplinary action and prosecution is taken on these individuals. Our credibility and image is being splattered all over the Arab networks.


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post May-05-2004 20:09  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

Here's the full 53 page army report:


Now edited:

Taguba Report - Click Me You Clowns. But only if you are American ... IMPORTANT!!!


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Last edited by occrider on May-05-2004 at 21:41

Old Post May-05-2004 21:28  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

ohh fuck bush, i thought for once he did something good, but of course not. no he is not personally responisble for those actions, BUT indirectly he is. it was american troops who did it, he is the one who should really condemn it to show where he stands. he should apologize like never before. also he should take all those people who was involved in any way whatsoever in this matter and bring them to trial. better to take away to many from the army, than to perhaps leave someone who might have something to do with it. it would also show that US takes a stand against this.

really hope that this is not just the tip of the iceberg.. or perhaps if bush had ordered such a thing.. that could have him fired out of capital hill

Old Post May-05-2004 21:28  Europe
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Here's the full 53 page army report:


Taguba Report Click Me You Clowns


occrider, you better watch out. cia may be after you, it says: "secret/no foreign dissemination", you just spread it over the internet.



btw, thanks for the link

Old Post May-05-2004 21:32  Europe
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
occrider, you better watch out. cia may be after you, it says: "secret/no foreign dissemination", you just spread it over the internet.



btw, thanks for the link


Oops ... well if I disappear you know what happened to me. Hmmmm ok only Americans are allowed to click on the link.

Glancing through the report, the only abuse I approve of is them writing "I am a rapist" on the leg of a detainee who raped a 15 year old ... blah.


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Old Post May-05-2004 21:35  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

Well, Bush sort of apologizes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3688645.stm

Rummy is taking the heat:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/m...main/index.html

And fake photos are the latest rage (NSFW banners):

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primar...ontent_ID=82983


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Old Post May-06-2004 06:46  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

seriously, what's his fucking problem? cannot apologise himself?

quote:
"The president is sorry for what occurred and the pain that it has caused," Mr Bush's spokesman Scott McClellan said afterwards.

Asked why Mr Bush himself had not apologised, he added: "I'm saying it now for him."


see, he doesn't take clear stand against this. unbelievable imo. makes me believe that there is more to this than we know right now.

quote:
Arabs who watched Mr Bush's interview across the Middle East - many of them having to rely only on a summary in Arabic provided by al-Arabiya - told correspondents they were unconvinced by Mr Bush's position.

Old Post May-06-2004 10:29  Europe
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
Arabs who watched Mr Bush's interview across the Middle East - many of them having to rely only on a summary in Arabic provided by al-Arabiya - told correspondents they were unconvinced by Mr Bush's position.


Not to be too skeptical, but somehow I doubt that the Arab world would have been convinced of anything Bush said, even if he would have flat out apologized and took full responsibility (which I don't think he should have, but just for argument sake).


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post May-06-2004 13:39  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Not to be too skeptical, but somehow I doubt that the Arab world would have been convinced of anything Bush said, even if he would have flat out apologized and took full responsibility (which I don't think he should have, but just for argument sake).


i guess in a way you are right. but i still think they might have felt somewhat better if he should have apologized.

bad example, but if for example saddam should appologize like a little pig for evertyhing bad he has done to the iraqi/american people, he would probably gain some more respect.

Old Post May-06-2004 14:06  Europe
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