Is it just me, or was that utterly nonsensical and incoherent?

quote:

Originally posted by IN_COLD_BLOOD now alot of u are gunna hate on me for this but think about it all and read this hol argument... bush has made bad decisions and i dont know why the hell our soldiers are still in iraq.... itz gay but think of it like this- if gore was president instead of bush beforehand we wulda rele been screwed considering gore is a jew... and wen he was in the senate he knew about bin laden and ignored it- as did clinton, bush is a normal human being wit same feelings as all of us- and yes he does make decisions that affect all of us- but hey politics is a hard thing- and he has to work both sides of the argument- i honestly think we shuld let the hol middle east kill eachotha- then we shuld come in and clean up the scraps... 1 thing i dont like about bush tho is that we are being too nice to the fucks in iraq- y persecute soldiers for fucking wit the prisoners- itz not as bad as wat saddam was doin to them- and remember y they are all in that jail... they are savages and thatz y they are being treated like that...

A couple of questions & objections, if I may. What does Gore being a Jew have to do with anything? In what way is the fact that there are Polish, Australian, British and American soldiers in Iraq 'gay'? Now that we've got that out of the way, here are the major problems I've got with your analysis of the situation:

1) The fact that you're lambasting Gore and Clinton for ignoring Bin Laden, when Bush did exactly the same thing. You can't use Bin Laden as an example of how Bush is better when Bush is just as guilty is Clinton.
2) Your assertion that we should 'let the whole middle east kill each other'. When genocide is preventable, do you think that it's a good idea to prevent it, or are you a hardcore ethical egoist?
3) Your assertion that torturing Iraqis is an alright thing to do. We went into Iraq under the premise that they were a threat and possessed an arsenal of WMDs. That has no been proven false. We then changed our line to 'well, it's still okay - we're liberating the Iraqi people, because Saddam used to torture and kill them!' There are two major problems with that idea. First there's the fact that we killed thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians during and after the invasion. Secondly, it's now emerged that Rumsfeld apparently authorized torture of Iraqi prisoners. Is it just me, or are we starting to look like unashamed hypocrites here? We evidently aren't as had as Saddam, but we're doing a lot of the things that he did - thus losing any credibility we had with the general Iraqi populace. And what does the fact that what we've done wasn't as bad as Saddam have to do with anything? Does that make it ethically justifiable to do that to another human being?
4) Lastly, I find it disturbing that you make the jump from 'they were in jail' to 'they were savages'. For want of a better phrase, you're a fucking moron my friend. The vast majority of inmates at Abu Ghraib were apparently just random people picked up off the street. We had no right to violate, torture and humiliate them - period. Even if they were militants, that doesn't suddenly make them sub-human. If you think that it does, then present your arguments please.

Lastly, try to improve your spelling and grammar, because as it stands your post is almost impossible to read.

___________________
Currently Whoring:

• Space Tribe Vs Electric Universe - Rabbit Hole
  
• CPU - So It Begins
  
• Too Short & Mistah FAB - The Sideshow
  

ok u my friend are a complete idiot.... we didnt only go there b/c of WMD- everyone knows that... and rele- who wulda thought someone would hijack a plane a crash it into the twin towers- im from brooklyn,ny- i was there, u werent... so dont go on about how wrong i am- if u knew people who died u would think differently- gore and clinton knew way before bush did about bin laden and they didnt ignore him completely, but they didnt do much to protect us.... now bush is actually doing something... i think we got our point across already to the people out there- i think we should ship our soldiers out of there right now...and honestly not the whole truth is coming out about the abuse and arab prison brutality- what do u think they do to us in their jails or w/e u wanna call them- they brutally mutilate and decapitate us- and what are we doing.... nothing close.
then u bring up civilians which is so stupid of u, because what about 9/11- what do we say about them- look unless u have lost someone to these attacks to terrorists- u can say anything... so just leave it at that- and dont believe everything the papers and news tell u- the government doesn't tell us half the things that are happening to the american soliders there

___________________

Yo, if you were a prisoner of war and your captors raped you and photographed it, would it make you feel better to know that at least they didn't cut your head off? What about if you belonged to a society that doesn't glorify sex the way that ours does but is instead very modest about the body and holds it as the highest form of humiliation to be exposed and abused for someone's sick amusement? Is what we do really made 'ok' by the fact that it is "nothing close" to what the other side does? Consider the fact that the man who was decapitated is dead; the men who we raped will have to live with their shame for the rest of their lives. I'm not excusing either side, but it is frankly ludicrous to pardon one by comparing it to the other. And would people please stop trying to connect 9/11 with the war in Iraq? 9/11 was caused by Osama Bin Laden (who we have not caught, btw). It was proven that he was not connected with Hussein. Our reason for invading Iraq was to find weapons of mass destruction, not to avenge 9/11. And today is the first time in a year that we've found anything and it was an almost-empty shell, the legitimacy of which I am unconvinced. If we were serious about resolving what happened with 9/11, we would be out there searching for Osama Bin Laden instead of diverting attention to the interogation of a man who really had nothing to do with it. And I laugh every time they call him a coward for hiding in that hole. You think W. wouldn't hide in the deepest hole he could find if anybody so much as said "boo"?

___________________

We become the decisions we make.

quote:

Originally posted by slIpitUpnglIde Yo, And would people please stop trying to connect 9/11 with the war in Iraq? Our reason for invading Iraq was to find weapons of mass destruction, not to avenge 9/11.

At least that's what Mr president tells the gullible people of today. I will be surprised if Bush manages to win come Nov. Maybe he can rig another election.

ps. I love America.

___________________

You ain't no daisy, no daisy at all

quote:

Originally posted by slIpitUpnglIde Yo, if you were a prisoner of war and your captors raped you and photographed it, would it make you feel better to know that at least they didn't cut your head off? What about if you belonged to a society that doesn't glorify sex the way that ours does but is instead very modest about the body and holds it as the highest form of humiliation to be exposed and abused for someone's sick amusement? Is what we do really made 'ok' by the fact that it is "nothing close" to what the other side does? Consider the fact that the man who was decapitated is dead; the men who we raped will have to live with their shame for the rest of their lives. I'm not excusing either side, but it is frankly ludicrous to pardon one by comparing it to the other. And would people please stop trying to connect 9/11 with the war in Iraq? 9/11 was caused by Osama Bin Laden (who we have not caught, btw). It was proven that he was not connected with Hussein. Our reason for invading Iraq was to find weapons of mass destruction, not to avenge 9/11. And today is the first time in a year that we've found anything and it was an almost-empty shell, the legitimacy of which I am unconvinced. If we were serious about resolving what happened with 9/11, we would be out there searching for Osama Bin Laden instead of diverting attention to the interogation of a man who really had nothing to do with it. And I laugh every time they call him a coward for hiding in that hole. You think W. wouldn't hide in the deepest hole he could find if anybody so much as said "boo"?

ok- 1. i wuldnt be in the situation they are cuz im not a terrorist...
if i was captured, it wuld be by arabs and my chance of not getting brutally mangled is slim to none- so really i think we are being kind to them- i mean would u rather have ur head sawed off- or get sexually humiliated?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by IN_COLD_BLOOD ok u my friend are a complete idiot....

Great, ad hominem attacks really go a long way towards furthering your argument!

quote:

we didnt only go there b/c of WMD- everyone knows that...

Err, that was the primary justification for the war. It was WMD, WMD, WMD and more WMD - until it emerged that the phantom WMD apparently didn't even exist.

quote:

and rele- who wulda thought someone would hijack a plane a crash it into the twin towers- im from brooklyn,ny- i was there, u werent... so dont go on about how wrong i am-

What on earth does the fact that you were there have to do with anything? What you just said has absolutely no relevance to the issue at hand - and as such, I'm at a loss as to why you felt the need to mention it.

quote:

if u knew people who died u would think differently-

Firstly, that's unsubstantiated speculation - you have no idea whether I'd think differently. Secondly - if I did think differently, then it would no doubt be related to an irrational desire for revenge - and as such my opinion on the matter should be discounted and ignored.

quote:

gore and clinton knew way before bush did about bin laden and they didnt ignore him completely, but they didnt do much to protect us....

I think that it's important to recognise that they probably didn't know just how far Bin Laden was willing to go, and also the fact that Bush too effectively ignored the threat from Bin Laden. Both Bush and Clinton are at fault - not just Clinton.

quote:

now bush is actually doing something...

Yep, he sure is. He's got us bogged down in Afghanistan where we've managed to install an ineffective and powerless government, cemented the role of the warlords - and generally screwed up the country. After the, he went and attacked Iraq for no good reason, in the process doing more to hinder the fight against terrorism than to help it. All Bush is doing is screwing things up.

quote:

i think we got our point across already to the people out there- i think we should ship our soldiers out of there right now...

That would be a ridiculous thing to do. We screwed up their country, it's our responsibility to do all we can to fix it. We made the mess, we need to clean it up. If we got a 'point across' in Iraq, it's that the US and it's allies have no problem killing invading countries at a whim, in direct violation of international law. Iraq wasn't a terrorist safe haven, if we were really that concerned about terrorists then we'd be in Saudi Arabia right now.

quote:

and honestly not the whole truth is coming out about the abuse and arab prison brutality- what do u think they do to us in their jails or w/e u wanna call them-

Firstly, define 'they'. Who are you referring to? Be specific please. Secondly, how does the fact that they may mistreat western prisoners make what US soldiers have done in any right or acceptable?

quote:

they brutally mutilate and decapitate us- and what are we doing.... nothing close.

Got any evidence to show that this is in any way widespread? Most Middle Eastern countries would return American prisoners for fear of angering the US.

quote:

then u bring up civilians which is so stupid of u, because what about 9/11- what do we say about them-

What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? Stop making elaborate attempts to link every war we get into with 9/11 - sorry to break it to you, but it's time to move on, 9/11 happened - and invading countries like Iraq isn't going to change that.

I say that crushing the Taliban was the correct response to 9/11, but that invading Iraq was a huge mistake that we'll pay dearly for in the future.

quote:

look unless u have lost someone to these attacks to terrorists- u can say anything...

Actually, the opposite is probably true. People who've lost loved ones in terrorists attacks are more likely to let emotions impede their judgement, thus making their opinions on the matter irrational. I'd also like to mention that you don't actually know whether I've lost someone to a terrorist attack, so it's probably not the best idea to announce that I haven't unless you know me personally.

quote:

so just leave it at that- and dont believe everything the papers and news tell u- the government doesn't tell us half the things that are happening to the american soliders there

Agreed, I think that the recent prison abuse photos illustrate this point clearly enough.

___________________
Currently Whoring:

• Space Tribe Vs Electric Universe - Rabbit Hole
  
• CPU - So It Begins
  
• Too Short & Mistah FAB - The Sideshow
  

quote:

Originally posted by IN_COLD_BLOOD ok- 1. i wuldnt be in the situation they are cuz im not a terrorist...

Err, the vast majority of people involved in the prisoner abuse scandal weren't terrorists either. What you just said makes no sense whatsoever.

quote:

if i was captured, it wuld be by arabs and my chance of not getting brutally mangled is slim to none- so really i think we are being kind to them- i mean would u rather have ur head sawed off- or get sexually humiliated?

Okay, now you're just behaving like an irrational racist. If you're going to make absurd comments like that, I don't know how anyone is supposed to have a civil and calm discussion with you.

___________________
Currently Whoring:

• Space Tribe Vs Electric Universe - Rabbit Hole
  
• CPU - So It Begins
  
• Too Short & Mistah FAB - The Sideshow
  

quote:

Originally posted by IN_COLD_BLOOD we are being too nice to the fucks in iraq- y persecute soldiers for fucking wit the prisoners- itz not as bad as wat saddam was doin to them- and remember y they are all in that jail... they are savages and thatz y they are being treated like that...

That's the moral argument our country is now relegated to; that's where Bush and the neocons have taken us.

"Hey we're still better than Saddam."


Also, that's patent BS about most of the inmates of Abu Graib. Between 70-90 percent of those arrested were innocent of any crimes according to the Red Cross report published in the Wall Street Journal.


Osama has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in causing the world to hate America.

___________________
http://www.discoboomer.com/forums/

Last edited by DaveSZ on May-24-2004 at 14:15

bush


if kerry wins were more screwed than before, kerry's too much of a pussy imo and the terrorists will see that

quote:

Originally posted by LinX bush if kerry wins were more screwed than before, kerry's too much of a pussy imo and the terrorists will see that

That's the best you can up with? Bush is increasing the amount of terrorists, he isn't beating them. Heck - if anything, he's attacking people who had absolutely no intention of striking at the west. Bush is doing the exact opposite of what someone who was genuinely worried about terrorism would do - namely attacking/disarming the actual terrorists.

Not to mention the fact that there are more important things than terrorism - social issues for instance, where Bush has an atrocious record.

___________________
Currently Whoring:

• Space Tribe Vs Electric Universe - Rabbit Hole
  
• CPU - So It Begins
  
• Too Short & Mistah FAB - The Sideshow
  

I'd vote Kerry

___________________