quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 the cops confining me for 6 hours without charge? Lets see what the charter says about this.... ah here it is. I have highlighted the parts that pertain to this arguement.

Im sure everyone knows that for the most part if you are cool with a cop they will be cool with you.

The second you start screaming charter of rights, you have just given them every reason to fuk you over.

Suspicion of doing something illegal is very easy to prove. All the cop has to do is pretend that he smelt marijuana on you maybe say you looked intoxicated which would give him probable cause for search and seizure. Who do you think gets the benefit of the doubt in court.

___________________

1) always be polite with cops but stand firm if they overstep themselves.

2) the best way to find out your rights is by reading the chater and the various laws in place. they are all posted online. They are very long but if you search you can find the part that pertains to your question.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko i do agree. i would really like be more clear on my rights. what do you suggest the best way to go about find out these things. i just went to look up the criminal code of canada, and man its crazy long! i would definatly like to know what rights i have while being stopped by a cop.

Unreasonable search and seizure does not mean searching your pockets or your car.

It means pulling an inocent person aside, making them strip nude and take their belongings without proof that they are proceeds of crime or banned substances. If you so much bear a similiar resemblance to a criminal, cops can and will detain, search you untill they can satisfy that you are not the right person.

Charter of Rights is not here to protect defiant people. Once you break a law, at any level of govt you have violated law which bear consequences.

___________________

there is also a matter of jurisdiction. For example an OPP cop cannot charge you for speeding on a city owned road. Only on a provincial one and vice versa. But they can charge you for criminal reckless driving since it falls under the criminal code of the province and is not simple a driving offence.

Same holds true for bylaws. A police officer cannot charge you with a bylaw or detain you for violating a bylaw. Only bylaw officers can charge you with a bylaw infraction and they can only charge you with an infraction if they know who you are. Since the law says that only police officers can demand Identification and only if you are being charged, this means bylaw officers cannot.

Which means as far as smoking goes... PUFF AWAY and let the club ask you to stop.

I'd also like to note that the charter specifically states "within a reasonable time;" without giving one. They need only say that they suspect something and that's it, they can hold you indefinitely if you want to hide behind your charter. Police also aren't allowed to barge into your house without a warrant... Unless they are "in hot pursuit". Honestly you need to understand why these laws and charters exist before you can start ripping them out of context and utilizing them however you see fit to support your argument. There's a reason some lawyers get paid $600+ an hour and work 10 hours a day. Because you and I cannot interpret the law for ourselves, we can only just scratch the surface of how they protect us and order our otherwise chaotic and anti social (against society) existence (as you seem to be an instigator of anti social intents with your "loopholes" thread, you should take heed). There's lots to be learned and lots you should know in the why's.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Sadly many people around here take other's differing point of views personally. Not like in Europe where 2 people can have a heated political arguement with yelling and everything and then hug each other at the end of it and carry on drinking their wine as friends...

Are you smoking crack???? Europe is no more tolerant than North America man... what a ridiculous generalization...

I know plenty a euro that goes off like a mad-man/woman, and certainly ain't all lovey-dovey afterwards... christ-almighty...

in a moral society, you would follow the laws set forth by those elected. Why do you choose to advocate breaking said laws? You cant really believe that smoking in public is a right outlined in the charter.

Accecpt it for a few years, and vote for somebody else who will fulfill your wishes to smoke away.
The well being of the people are infinetly more important than the financial well being of nightclubs and pubs. That is unless they want to start paying more towards health care, both for their suffering employees and customers.

If I worked in a club, Id have it in my mind to sue them for an unsafe workplace caused by second hand smoke a few years down the road. This would be elevated even more if it was post bylaw smoking.

___________________
Retired TA.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 the cops confining me for 6 hours without charge? Lets see what the charter says about this.... ah here it is. I have highlighted the parts that pertain to this arguement.

Hey smart guy...aren't you the one that said the Charter has been a legal and political disaster...seems to serve you well enough

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper If the club does not want to be fined, they will enforce the bylaw. If you don't want to get kicked out of the club, then you won't smoke. get it?

exactly! The club will not be fined so long as they can demonstrate that they took all reasonable steps to enforce the bylaw, such as posting signs and not servings patrons who are not complying with the bylaw. So long as they can show that, they are covered. Then, the PATRON will be subject to being fined.

So inspectors can't force someone to produce ID...thats fine, but the POLICE ARE ALLOWED TO ENFORCE THE BYLAW AND ISSUE TICKETS! So let's use Guv as an example:

1. Guv can kick you out for non-compliance.
2. There are police right outside who CAN ask you to present ID and CAN ticket you if an inspector or Guv security are willing to testify that they asked you to stop and you didn't.

BTW...a bylaw inspector is one thing, but I dare anyone to tell Guv bouncers to FUCK OFF if approached, LOL. You may not get fined, but a rough exit from the club might be in your immediate future

This "loophole" isn't going to allow you to smoke, it's just going to prevent you from easily being fined.

And another thing...

Smoking isn't a right, and the fact that people are stupid enough to directly intake a few thousand chemicals into their lungs through an exceptionally toxic and habit forming process, by no means should I have to suffer because of it.

That said it isn't fair that the government allows smoking and profits from it, but the smokers have been trampling on the rights of others, and their health, for too long now. So what if you have to suffer some minor complications and inconvienences.

If you light up beside me and blow it anywhere in my direction, screw the bylaw, I'll pop ya one.

I hear ya!

But man your avatar is starting to make me sick. I'm eating here

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess i can't believe how annoying your online personality is.

hahaha
Tell it like it is Marg!!