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Originally posted by nchs09 cowardly? wtf are u talking about... that is perhaps the most retarded thing iv heard in my entire life... wearing a seatbelt is for cowards.. give me a break....

Well why else would you do it, if not out of fear?

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Originally posted by Arbiter Well why else would you do it, if not out of fear?

It's your funeral.....

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Originally posted by Dervish It's your funeral.....

Living long is no accomplishment. Living well: now that is something to aspire to.

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Originally posted by Arbiter For the same reason I don't wear a gas mask when I go to the grocery store. It's superfluous and cowardly.

Fine, if it's superfluous than make a case for that claim. Your argument for cowardice will naturally bear vindication from the veracity of that initial premise. Was your post humourous in nature?

Edit: Ah ok I see. Well if one is to regard not wearing a seatbelt as "living well" than I suppose I can understand how your statement can be applicable individually.

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by Arbiter Living long is no accomplishment. Living well: now that is something to aspire to.

How does increasing the likely hood of you dying make your life better lived exactly?

Also if your in the back and you don't wear a belt and crash you can kill the person in front but not yourself. (how fun would that make life having that on your mind?)

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

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Originally posted by occrider Fine, if it's superfluous than make a case for that claim. Your argument for cowardice will naturally bear vindication from the veracity of that initial premise. Was your post humourous in nature?

Superfluous in the strict sense means "exceeding what is necessary." But necessity can only be discussed as necessary for some thing. If survival is the objective, then unless death is certain if one does not wear a seatbelt, it is by definition superfluous. Since death is not certain for those not wearing a seatbelt, it wearing a seatbelt is superfluous.

More generally, the term might be taken as "exceeding what is reasonable." No strictly logical objective argument can use this definition since what is reasonable is purely subjective. It is also impossible to accurately assess the precise reduction in the risk of death produced by wearing a seatbelt. So in this sense, the superfluousness would merely be my opinion and subjective judgment based on a limited analysis and personal experience.

It bears noting, however, that the choice of survival as primary objective is itself subjective and would not be mine (and also is in fact one I have some measure of disdain for.)

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Originally posted by Dervish How does increasing the likely hood of you dying make your life better lived exactly?

It is precisely the fact that we die which makes life a valuable thing. Living dangerously and experiencing a higher possibility of death is a profound and unique way to understand the value of life.

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Also if your in the back and you don't wear a belt and crash you can kill the person in front but not yourself. (how fun would that make life having that on your mind?)

At the request of someone sitting in front of me, I wouldn't be opposed to wearing a seatbelt.

I remain unconvinced. I get what you mean in a way. But still in normal life not wearing a seatbelt doen't exactly turn me on.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Superfluous in the strict sense means "exceeding what is necessary." But necessity can only be discussed as necessary for some thing. If survival is the objective, then unless death is certain if one does not wear a seatbelt, it is by definition superfluous. Since death is not certain for those not wearing a seatbelt, it wearing a seatbelt is superfluous. More generally, the term might be taken as "exceeding what is reasonable." No strictly logical objective argument can use this definition since what is reasonable is purely subjective. It is also impossible to accurately assess the precise reduction in the risk of death produced by wearing a seatbelt. So in this sense, the superfluousness would merely be my opinion and subjective judgment based on a limited analysis and personal experience. It bears noting, however, that the choice of survival as primary objective is itself subjective and would not be mine (and also is in fact one I have some measure of disdain for.)

Hmmm I'm not aware of very many who make the case for the strict adherence to "necessity". However, if one is to convey corrollary implications of "cowardice" one would imagine that the nature of the topic would be less subjective in nature. I would imagine that the very nature of a cowardice mentality implies a departure from generally accepted beliefs of what should occur.

I hope that I'm not too drunk that I'm not making sense yet ...

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by Arbiter Living long is no accomplishment. Living well: now that is something to aspire to.

Well if you live long your chances of living well are much bigger, or?

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

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Originally posted by occrider Hmmm I'm not aware of very many who make the case for the strict adherence to "necessity". However, if one is to convey corrollary implications of "cowardice" one would imagine that the nature of the topic would be less subjective in nature. I would imagine that the very nature of a cowardice mentality implies a departure from generally accepted beliefs of what should occur. I hope that I'm not too drunk that I'm not making sense yet ...

I just woke up and am still quite tired, but I'll try to elaborate a bit. I wrote:

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It bears noting, however, that the choice of survival as primary objective is itself subjective and would not be mine (and also is in fact one I have some measure of disdain for.)

I should have wrote "mere survival," I think. Ultimately it is the whole belief system (if you're familiar with Sartre he would have called it a "way of life") possessed by much of our society ("generally accepted beliefs") suggesting that we ought to extend our lives as long as possible as an end in itself, and which seeks to maximize "safety" and "security" at almost any cost which I would call cowardly. To me, seat belts are strikingly characteristic of this belief system - so while I wouldn't say that wearing a seat belt is cowardly per se, it suggests to me a deeper sort of cowardice as the motive for one's actions.

But, it is not cowardly in so far as it departs from any generally accepted beliefs - rather, generally accepted beliefs themselves are characterized by a profound cowardice, I think.

Do you brush your teeth?

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.