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Originally posted by jrbuddha just curious...what made those of you who saw the videos of the beheadings, want to see them?

Talking about this particular beheading of Eugene, I saw it just to see if I experienced the same reaction as those who posted first. It didn't happen though. Talking about all the beheadings, I wantched them because they are happening, it's reality, and to avoid them is not right, it's cowardlike. You have to be aware of everything that is going on, even if it's something as strong as this(to some of course).

Also, look at the way you started your reply. It's also because of that. Curiosity makes us do many things.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil It has nothing to do with being bid bad America. The situation is damned if you do and damned if you don't. On one hand you have a city that to date seems to be the stronhold for insurgency within Iraq. You can let them continue and they continue to kill more innocent Iraqis from their carbombs and other means. On the other hand you have the US troops who went in there before ready to launch a final assault (after the hangings of the US workers). They backed down and sent in Iraqi troops who to date have done nothing. You can send in further troops but again you are risking civlians but at least at the end of the day you have the possibility of catching or killing those who mastermind the attacks. I think whether it is American or Iraqi troops they need to go there and in ultimate force and they must not back down until the job is done.

I agree with your latter point, where the problem exists is that a decision has not been made one way or another when it comes to such areas as Fallujah, that sense of indecisiveness can certainly not be beneficial to the U.S. presence in Iraq in the long run. If as they say many foreign fighters are in Fallujah then through the military decisions they have a nesting spot in Iraq if those claims are to be believed. Sounds to me like the old concept that many were accused of by a lot of war supporters about the false assumption that if you ignore the problem it will go away on its own, Fallujah, Samarra, Sadr City, will not go away on their own and the U.S. military will be responsible for dealing with that if Iraq is to be pacified.

We are now talking about leaving out parts of Iraq from voting in the elections if need be so. Is that democracy. Imagine if part of our nation was unable to cast their voice for representation of them. Doesn't sound like any American Democracy to me. Someone should tell Donald Rumsfeld to keep his mouth shut because whenever he opens it up bad vapors come out, of course this was the man who gave us the famous known knowns, and unknown knowns quote.

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Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Sep-24-2004 at 10:43

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil So you are saying that just because the man is in Iraq helping to restore the infrastructure he is fair game? Someone has to do it and the Iraqi people obviously don't have the training necessary to work these jobs themselves or they would already to be doing so. Thats like saying someone who got killed in a random drive by shooting was at fault because they drove through a certain part of town which they've driven to everyday on their way to work.

No, you misinterpreted my statement. Of course I'm not saying he's a fair game because he's helping Iraqi people. Quite the opposite infact, killing him is very harmful for the Iraqi people in the long term, and killing foreign workers in Iraq is certainly gruesome and not acceptable. I'm just saying that I don't see what's so especially horrifying about this death than any others seen on tv.

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The reason is so bad is not because these people are Americans. They are also british, turkish, korean, and other nationalities. The reason it is so bad is that it is more than a killing, it is making a spectacle of the man, his family, and declaring an impossible ransom they know will never be met for the pure pleasure of killing foreigners in a brutal fashion. It may not be more shocking than other people around the world getting brutally killed in a similar way but how many of those are shot with video and released for the world to see?

Yes, well in his case, the ransom wasn't that impossible. They just demanded a release of 2 Iraqi female scientists from prison. Not like they demanded a full scale US retreat or something like that. But I guess I've grown acustom to constantly seeing dead bodies and reading the stories about brutal slaughtering of civilians during the early 90's when the war here was going on, so I've kinda got used to that sort of stuff. When you see one or two such reports, you're shocked. When you see 20 of them, you're kinda ambivalent.

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oh and cancer is curable, being decapitated is not.

Eh, well then replace the word cancer with some long lasting painful disease that's not curable and you'll get the point.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Eh, well then replace the word cancer with some long lasting painful disease that's not curable and you'll get the point.

How about stupidity?

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan I agree with your latter point, where the problem exists is that a decision has not been made one way or another when it comes to such areas as Fallujah, that sense of indecisiveness can certainly not be beneficial to the U.S. presence in Iraq in the long run. If as they say many foreign fighters are in Fallujah then through the military decisions they have a nesting spot in Iraq if those claims are to be believed. Sounds to me like the old concept that many were accused of by a lot of war supporters about the false assumption that if you ignore the problem it will go away on its own, Fallujah, Samarra, Sadr City, will not go away on their own and the U.S. military will be responsible for dealing with that if Iraq is to be pacified.

Its called election season. I'm surpised you've never heard of it?



Shakka - good one

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Originally posted by Yoepus Its called election season. I'm surpised you've never heard of it?

Except it has been like that for many months now, not just leading up to the elections in a couple of months, so what does that say.

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Except it has been like that for many months now, not just leading up to the elections in a couple of months, so what does that say.

That Bush thinks longterm.

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quote:

Originally posted by Shakka How about stupidity?

The only stupid ones are they who let the media decide which deaths they should mourn.

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Originally posted by Shakka How about stupidity?

No, being stupid is pretty nice. Especially in developed societies where you rarely suffer any harm because of it.

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Originally posted by ierxium Talking about this particular beheading of Eugene, I saw it just to see if I experienced the same reaction as those who posted first. It didn't happen though. Talking about all the beheadings, I wantched them because they are happening, it's reality, and to avoid them is not right, it's cowardlike. You have to be aware of everything that is going on, even if it's something as strong as this(to some of course).

I am yet to watch any of the beheadings cos quite frankly i dont want those images burnt into my memory. If that makes me a coward than so be it i am a coward. I just dont feel you need to watch it to realise what is occurring is tragic and horrific. Just being told about the beheadings is enuff to know its shockingly wrong.
Good one big man!

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If you look back into history when Lincoln was elected (1860s), not all states participated in the elections.

14/18 areas in iraq is 77%

hell, if i had to worry about carbombs everyday voting would be pretty low on my priority list.

things like democracy take time.