The thing with this is that people say "ok for rape"

1) who going to judge that
2) who says she isnt lying because thats the only way to get one.

anywho. There are always going to be people with coat hangers and jumping down stairs. There are fucked up people who will never consider anything.

There are people who get abortions and think its the most horrible thing theyve ever had to do and wish to god they didnt have to do it, but were glad they had the option.

Then there are stupid bitches like this one chick at highschool who fucked so much she had had 4 abortions by the time she was a junior.

The problem isnt the fact that people have the ability to do this stuff its the fact that they were raised poorly enough to be in that situation.

We need programs promoting genuine social concern and morality. The problem should take care of itself at that point.

Planned Parenthood fucking rocks and I dont know why people dont use their services more often.


edit: And the only true thing that NEEDS stopping is partial birth abortions. induce labor, while the head is still inside of body you jam a pair of scissors into the skull and then suck the brains out.

Its quote unquote for savin the life of the mother but if theyve already gotten it 95% out ...


bah. There are some sick fucks in this world.

quote:

Originally posted by tribu Yes, but (im keeping this very short), the state's funds come from taxes. Taxes are paid by the citizens and (often) the businesses who do businesses withint its borders

I'm back Obviously, as I'm going to mention a bit of the law system, I'm going to do so based on the Brazilian system, although I don't believe it's too different from the American one (or from most Western countries, in this matter).

Like I had said, yes, that's where taxes come from. Without citizens, there would be no reason for a state to exist (even the Vatican state has a few citizens after all). Citizens strengthen the state so the state can assist these citizens. It's up for the state to provide security, education and all those most things candidates promise before the elections.

If a citizen does something against the law of the state they live in (i.e. steals), the offender won't get away unpunished. Likewise, if the state critically fails to provide something to its citizens (i.e. a girl is raped), it should pay. Not directly, it means other citizens and businessmen are paying too. Well, weren't they initially paying anyway? It's as if they hired a security company to take care of them. If one of them had problems because of the bad administration, the community should take care of this problem as a whole. As for paying for pre-natal and other stuff, wasn't the state supposed to do this anyway? Even if it's not, it automatically becomes responsible in this case.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira I'm back Obviously, as I'm going to mention a bit of the law system, I'm going to do so based on the Brazilian system, although I don't believe it's too different from the ...

Still keeping this short for discussion's sake.

If you add the responsibility to the government (I believe most governments aren't held responsible for failing to provide security) then wont you also be increasing spending as well? In a case like this, the government has two options which are: raise taxes or decrease spending. Additionally, if you allow rape victims to hold the government responsible, then where will it end? Robery victims, assault victims....every crime, petty or major will be the responsibility of the government. I may be biased because I live in America, but here, 40% of major criminals go uncaught. That means 40% of major crimes (felonies) will be in the financial hands of the government. Regardless of the similarity of numbers, would you be willing to pay an increase in taxes to foot this bill? Would you be willing to let government cut spending? If governments and their agencies were responsible with their finances, I think you could say yes, but (at least in America), theyre not.

Last edited by on Nov-12-2004 at 03:56

quote:

Originally posted by tribu would you be willing to pay an increase in taxes to foot this bill? Would you be willing to let government cut spending? If governments and their agencies were responsible with their finances, I think you could say yes, but (at least in America), theyre not.

not quite on the same scale, but here in the UK the government feels that it IS responsible for our safety. in 1997 we voted in a government who promised to raise taxes and spend more on services such as education and police. one of the main big spenders of the current government is the police. tony blair has put hundreds of thousands more police officers on the streets, and funnily enough as a result crime has dropped. so this goes to show people don't actually mind spending a little more on tax when it comes to security.

this aside, if someone gets robbed or raped, they can't exactly go knocking on the door of No 10 downing street demanding their taxes back, that is rediculous. all a government can do is try (or in some government's cases, look like they are trying) to curb crime with more/better equipped police.

so i in turn beleive that the pro life argument should have nothing to do with a governments responsibility. that is something that will not change so quickly, and it certainly can't turn back the time for the 13 yr old girl who wasn't educated properly about sex, and as a result has ended up pregnant because she was fooling around with a boy. nor does it undo the damage caused to a rape victim and her family. will it undo the horribleness of your wife giving birth to a rapist's baby?

i think it really should be a choice for the individual. why should they be denied the procedure because some other people (who will probably never have to be in the situation anyway) think its morally wrong? if you think its morally wrong, don't go and have an abortion, but don't stop people who want/need one for a damn good reason.

fuck morals, i would take my education/life instead.

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I noticed it is a lot of male opinion in here!

As a woman, I believe in pro-choice. However, I think that there should be a limit to how many times a woman can get pregnant, and have an abortion.

What I am saying, is that in a lot of cases, women are using abortion as a fucked up form of birth-control. They don't bother to take the right precautions, continuously get pregnant, and then abort.

I think two times, your out. If you are going for your second abortion, you deserve to have your tubes tied, and should not be allowed to ever have children again.

That may be harsh, but it isn't fair to the babies that keep getting created and terminated, due to someone's neglect.

As for the rape comments:

It pisses me off that you (Lira and others), could DARE to say that a person who is raped should have to keep the baby!!

The whole nine months of pregnancy will be a constant reminder, the horrible strenuous labor, and birth, of a vicious act from an asshole. Then the mental anxiety of being attached to this child, because they have carried it for nine months, but always knowing that it was the devil's spawn, perhaps growing up to look like the rapist. OR to put the child up for adoption, another heart wrenching thing to do for a woman, never knowing what happens to this kid. And is it fair to the child? If it is born, and put up for adoption, it will feel unloved, and that it was a horrible mistake, if it is kept, it will always wonder about its father, and if told the truth, will be mentally scarred for life!

If a woman is raped, she has 129083210983% of my support to have an abortion. I know that I would not be able to go through the pain and fear of being raped, AND having a baby on top of it. That would be pure hell!

You are a man, you cannot and will not ever possibly understand what it would be like to be raped, and then be pregnant because of it.

Pro-choice, consequences for abusing the choice, and postive life changes for the people that truly need it!

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa I noticed it is a lot of male opinion in here! As a woman, I believe in pro-choice. However, I think that there should be a limit to how many times a woman can get pregnant, and have an abortion. What I am saying, is that in a lot of cases, women are using abortion as a fucked up form of birth-control. They don't bother to take the right precautions, continuously get pregnant, and then abort. I think two times, your out. If you are going for your second abortion, you deserve to have your tubes tied, and should not be allowed to ever have children again. That may be harsh, but it isn't fair to the babies that keep getting created and terminated, due to someone's neglect. As for the rape comments: It pisses me off that you (Lira and others), could DARE to say that a person who is raped should have to keep the baby!! The whole nine months of pregnancy will be a constant reminder, the horrible strenuous labor, and birth, of a vicious act from an asshole. Then the mental anxiety of being attached to this child, because they have carried it for nine months, but always knowing that it was the devil's spawn, perhaps growing up to look like the rapist. OR to put the child up for adoption, another heart wrenching thing to do for a woman, never knowing what happens to this kid. And is it fair to the child? If it is born, and put up for adoption, it will feel unloved, and that it was a horrible mistake, if it is kept, it will always wonder about its father, and if told the truth, will be mentally scarred for life! If a woman is raped, she has 129083210983% of my support to have an abortion. I know that I would not be able to go through the pain and fear of being raped, AND having a baby on top of it. That would be pure hell! You are a man, you cannot and will not ever possibly understand what it would be like to be raped, and then be pregnant because of it. Pro-choice, consequences for abusing the choice, and postive life changes for the people that truly need it!

word-tastic

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