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Dervish
Your opinion matters.



Registered: Dec 2003
Location:

Look I'm not saying that either of you is right, just that I personally don't like it when peoples opinions just get rubbished without a reason, and a poor grasp of english isn't good enough for me ( since mine is shite ). Why not argue the points with him. The rest of us would learn alot as would you .


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Old Post Dec-03-2004 01:17 
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Cal
who then now bitches



Registered: Aug 2002
Location: T.O.

I really don't like to write essays. Especially if his english isnt all that.

Anyway, I apologize for my outburst before. For the sheep, not the retard, I really think that guy is an idiot.

Cheers guy.

Old Post Dec-03-2004 01:22  Ukraine
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JM
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Seattle, USA

the eastern Bloc countries will always be CCCP satellites



hahha.... yip.

>JM<

Old Post Dec-03-2004 02:17  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4066617.stm

weeeee

Go democracy

Old Post Dec-03-2004 18:31  Europe
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ShadoWolf
ISOS



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: State of Trance

Great news!


Now we need to get rid of the corrupt and undemocratic regime in Ottawa, Canada!


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Old Post Dec-03-2004 19:24  United Nations
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

Well written editorial by Yushchenko in today's WSJ

Link

quote:
Our Ukraine

By VIKTOR YUSHCHENKO
December 3, 2004; Page A18

KIEV -- For months, Ukraine's democratic forces warned officials in Kiev and other European capitals that our autumn presidential election would be neither free nor fair. Two of the main reasons for this conclusion were the incumbent government's unprecedented interference in the pre-election campaign and its censorship of the mass media.

During the first election round on Oct. 31, regional governors colluded with police and other state officials to stuff ballot boxes, falsify vote counts and intimidate election commissions. Ukraine's central and territorial election commissions turned a blind eye and overlooked our well-documented official complaints. In the end, despite massive falsifications by my opponent, the central election commission was forced to concede that I won the first round of voting.

During the Nov. 21 runoff vote, polling stations in the eastern regions remained open two hours after they were supposed to close officially. Some reported voter turnout exceeding 100%, while in other regions up to 35% of the ballots cast were from people's homes. Election observers were prevented from monitoring voting and counting procedures at thousands of polling stations, as permitted by Ukrainian law. Thousands of poll watchers from democratic parties together with average citizens witnessed traveling thugs with police escorts harassing election commissioners, destroying polling stations, stuffing ballots, abusing absentee voter certificates and switching commission protocols, to name just a few of the 11,000 violations officially filed by us in the courts. We are now patiently awaiting the Supreme Court's review of these complaints in the hope that justice will prevail.

The last straw in the government's election fraud efforts came Monday morning, Nov. 22, when the central election commission's voting results showed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych winner of the election, despite two independent exit polls showing otherwise.
* * *

Official Kiev did not anticipate that hundreds of thousands of voters would take to the streets to defend their constitutional right to vote and peacefully protest against falsified election results. They couldn't, because since the March 2002 parliamentary election, Ukraine's leaders have turned a deaf ear to voter calls for real political and economic change.

They failed to recognize that two-thirds of Ukraine's citizens are dissatisfied with their leaders and their policies. They failed to recognize that no longer will people tolerate the gap between declared and real rights. They thought they could get away with staying in power by illegal means. They wanted the international community to remain silent.

Now, they are forced to recognize that citizens have taken matters into their own hands. The last vestiges of remaining public trust in official Kiev, both at home and abroad, were permanently severed when the corrupt and blind government unashamedly stole from its people the most fundamental of all rights -- the right to choose one's destiny.

Ukraine's people have spoken, and I am confident that we will find a solution to the complex political crisis that has developed as a result of the regime's efforts to steal the election. The most logical way out of the crisis is for repeat voting to be held speedily within the next two weeks. Talks involving international mediators this week reaffirmed this.

For European and other observers, I believe there are four important conclusions that should be made with regard to current events in Ukraine.
• This year Europe has witnessed two fundamental political changes: In the first half of the year, the enlargement of the European Union to include eight countries from the old Soviet bloc, and in the second half -- the presidential elections in Ukraine. What will happen in my country after the election will not only impact Ukraine's future, but, to a great extent, the future of Europe and Russia.

• Thanks to television, the world today has seen a genuinely different Ukraine. Observers will no longer associate Ukraine with just Chernobyl, or corrupt regimes, or another scandal involving high-ranking officials. The world is witnessing a noble European nation, one that embraces genuine democratic values and, even more importantly, one that will stand up to defend these values with dignity.


The world has seen how millions of people took to the streets and squares. For nearly two weeks, in biting cold, hundreds of thousands bravely, steadfastly and at the same time gracefully demonstrated their unwavering opposition to a corrupt, authoritarian regime. The world has looked into the eyes of millions of good people of various ages, confessions, different ethnic backgrounds -- all peacefully, as is their right under their own Constitution -- fighting for their rights. All without unrest, violence and blood: This is what the world community has seen.
• The people of Ukraine have shown the world that we are much more ready to integrate into the European community than the ruling regime. Our path to Europe is not obstructed by formalities -- the absence of a formal application or a joint-action plan. No one saw a civil society in Ukraine and the desire to live according to EU standards and values. Now -- you've seen.


It is important to recognize that people's demands made from the street are supported by the entire system of popularly elected representatives -- local councils, mayors, and Ukraine's Parliament, the Verkhovna Rada. Only those officials appointed by the president have adopted a position to the contrary.
• Currently the outgoing regime is menacing Europe with the threat of separatism and the dissolution of Ukraine. I state with full responsibility for my words: This is a fictional, artificial threat. It does not exist. The people of Ukraine recognize that an economically prosperous nation-state tolerant of its bilingualism and multiethnic society, and respectful of all religious confessions, is Ukraine's strength and not her weakness.


It is true that today, leading officials in regions which resorted to the largest number of election falsifications are now frightened when faced with taking responsibility for their crimes. They are trying to play the card of regional separatism, by adopting illegal decisions and threatening us with referendums. This process will be halted immediately. We will not allow three governors appointed by the president to tear apart our united country. And, besides, those officials will face a penalty even greater than that for election falsification from three to 15 years in prison.
* * *

Ukraine's democratic opposition movement stands for a peaceful resolution to the current political crisis. We oppose the use of force and will not allow anyone to smother our freedom by force. We are a genuine force, a wise one, which will lead our people to legitimate victory based on law.

Mr. Yushchenko, Ukraine's prime minister from 1999-2001, leads the country's democratic opposition movement and is a candidate for the presidency of Ukraine.

Old Post Dec-03-2004 19:26  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

indeed, very well written and good

Old Post Dec-03-2004 21:37  Europe
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deenamo
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada

as a person who was born and lived all life in Kyiv, i can oppose to djash and state that 95% of his post is shit

Old Post Dec-06-2004 02:03  Ukraine
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

hhmmm.... I find this attention towards Ukraine really suspicious. European and North American media have been focusing this issue (favouring Yuschenko and "democracy") and, weirdly, Yushchenko is supported by the US and the EU.

Picking sides on the Ukrainian elections if you're not Ukrainian is as pointless as debating whether Bush or Kerry should've won if you're not American. Unless you're thinking about your own situation (i.e. how would my country benefit from the results?), then you shouldn't use the word democracy (or freedom, for that matter), so clearly state your intentions.


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Old Post Dec-06-2004 12:55  Brazil
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erdega
Suspended User



Registered: Feb 2002
Location: back in T.O

Andrey Shevchenko:
Modern Ukraine's biggest footbal star, most popular celebrity of all Ukrainians and one of the best players of FC Milano - .supports Viktor Yanukovich



LINK



Sergei Bubka - Ukraine's most famous athlete calls the election's demonstrations in Kyev a big collective farce.

"The elections in the Ukraine were honest and examined by all sides, so there is not right to cancell their results." - said Bubka in his interview to Spanish El Mundo newspaper. He says: "The situation is the following: there is only one candidate that won - Janukovich - and the opposition is just not willing to recognize this fact."

LINK


Some of the confrontations



Old Post Dec-06-2004 14:04  Canada
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Lira
Ancient BassAddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil

quote:
Originally posted by erdega
Andrey Shevchenko:
Modern Ukraine's biggest footbal star, most popular celebrity of all Ukrainians and one of the best players of FC Milano - .supports Viktor Yanukovich

Sergei Bubka - Ukraine's most famous athlete calls the election's demonstrations in Kyev a big collective farce.

"The elections in the Ukraine were honest and examined by all sides, so there is not right to cancell their results." - said Bubka in his interview to Spanish El Mundo newspaper. He says: "The situation is the following: there is only one candidate that won - Janukovich - and the opposition is just not willing to recognize this fact."

LINK

Slovo


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Old Post Dec-06-2004 16:17  Brazil
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stren
Strenowski



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Warsaw, Earth, 1 AU

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
hhmmm.... I find this attention towards Ukraine really suspicious. European and North American media have been focusing this issue (favouring Yuschenko and "democracy") and, weirdly, Yushchenko is supported by the US and the EU.

Picking sides on the Ukrainian elections if you're not Ukrainian is as pointless as debating whether Bush or Kerry should've won if you're not American. Unless you're thinking about your own situation (i.e. how would my country benefit from the results?), then you shouldn't use the word democracy (or freedom, for that matter), so clearly state your intentions.


I don't really understand what you mean. If I support Yuschenko, that doesn't mean I can't use the word democracy as you put it, because I believe it is both "benifitial for my country", AND democratic at the same time.


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Old Post Dec-06-2004 16:23  Poland
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Ukrainian elections
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