quote:

Originally posted by Kytracid No it's not. People are born with morbid obesity (a disease), and it's almost impossible for them to control their weight. Your statement shows just how much you really know about the challenges facing people who are obese. Too bad really, cause otherwise you'd give them the same amount of sympathy you are doling out on post-op transexuals.

EVERYONE is born with a gender they cannot change.
Not every obese person is born with obesity they cannot change. There are certain lifestyle factors that can reduce the risks of obesity. In some cases there are not, as you said - but in most cases, there is some degree of control over one's own body.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf People who want a sex change operation need psychological help instead of an expensive procedure. Even if they do undergo the OPTIONAL procedure, I shouldn't have to pay for it. In contrast, vision is vitally important to everyone and should be funded.

you are ruining a great debate..
shush

btw..just want to add this is a great thread..atleast to read...I dont think I knew enough facts to have an opinion on the issue but after reading 4 pages of posts...im with mark and skipper.

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Originally posted by Skipper Then go to court. These people are DOING something about their complaint. They are taking action. Maybe you should try that, instead of spending so much time whining from behind a computer screen.

If they win i just might. Im tired of special interests. It's time for someone to stick up for the common person.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by TrueToTheCrew Are you the poster girl for NDP? Just wondering.

LOL

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Orko so you are saying that, he is not educated on the subbect, and if he were, then he would see your POV? i think its just his opinion, weather its informed or not, is besides the point.

No. People like her think that just because people like me don't cave into every whiney court case or agree that evryone deserves everything then surely we must be ignorant.

This is the paradox of liberalism. Liberals by definition are supposed to be open minded to all aspects of an arguement. They are also supposed to be the most sympathetic to all people. Instead what you get are elitests who think you are ignorant because you disagree with them.

I have my own ideas about how the world should work and i really have a hard time how people can come up with so many double standards such as this one. But i will never call anyone stupid or ignorant unless they are making a really really bad statement such as ive seen with the arab/isreal flame wars.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Skipper:

Please answer these questions:

Do you feel that people should be allowed to get a sex change operation yet not be able to get an eye exam?

If the answer is yes then please justify this remembering the fact that an eye exam is much more necessary to function in daily society than a sex change would be.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf People who want a sex change operation need psychological help instead of an expensive procedure. Even if they do undergo the OPTIONAL procedure, I shouldn't have to pay for it. In contrast, vision is vitally important to everyone and should be funded.

They DO receive psychological help...if you bothered to read my posts, or do ANY research on this topic at all, you'd find that psychological evaluations are a *substantial* part of the process.

Are you, and anyone else holding your position, so ingnorant as to think that anyone can just walk into an office and book the surgery??? FFS, get a clue...then come back here and post

Jay...stop for ONE second and stop trying to make everything about "equality" and "entitlement". Equality is perhaps a noble concept, but in reality it's also a farce...because people are NOT all equal. We deserve equality under the law...but some people's needs are greater than others and, as a compassionate society, more resources are allocated to those individuals. I will likely NEVER collect welfare or CPP, yet I'll have "paid" into both programs for 50 years by the time I'll have retired. I'm ok with that because I like the society we live in. I like that if someone has a tough break, or didn't have the same opportunities I did, that there are some extra resources for them out there.

Why is this surgery perceived as sooooo different than other treatments? Why is this issue being singled out? Is it because the people complaining are ignorant and clearly look down upon people with transgendered issues? I'll suggest the answer is YES. The utter disdain for this group in some posts here is evident. Some of you here seem to feel that transgendered individuals are just "fucked up" and need nothing more than psychological help. Well, I'm pleased to see that the medical community has a more comprehensive understanding of the issue and feels otherwise...

There are people, families, etc. in state-coverd therapy, rehab, social programs, etc. for months, years, even DECADES, but *this* is the issue that is identified as a gross misallocation of resources? This is the expense that is such a "waste" when people have to pay for eye exams? LOL, give me a break!!! Picking on the easily identifiable and marginalized group who will garner little support amongst the close-minded masses? how pathetic!!! Some people may want to examine their own intollerances and ignorance before they continue to post in this thread...particularly the smokers amongst you, some of who will be receiving FREE cancer therapy at some point in the future, ought to consider that this surgery is but a *DROP* in the ocean of public healthcare spending. It's also about people who likely didn't "choose" to feel this way, unlike the idiots who chose to take up smoking, or who went skiing and hit that tree, or who hurt themselves playing b-ball, etc. and received free coverage.

btw...it appears that one of the 4 people named in the case is midway through the proceedure...then the procedure become delisted. They are fighting to have the rest of their procedure covered. That doesn't strike me as terribly unreasonable.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...unal041022.html

The only person that has been violated was Jo Momma last night...

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- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Skipper: Please answer these questions: Do you feel that people should be allowed to get a sex change operation yet not be able to get an eye exam? If the answer is yes then please justify this remembering the fact that an eye exam is much more necessary to function in daily society than a sex change would be.

I'll take a stab at that (sorry to intervene Sarah, lol)

1. No. I think eye exams should be covered for free once per year or once per two year period...whatever is deemed necessary by the medical community.

2. While proper eye care and correction is clearly necessary for people with vision impairment to function in society, imagine being so depressed, feeling so alienated from your own physical body, and from society in general, that you can't function either. It's really not that different. You seem to be operating under the assumption that a transgendered individual could just push their issue aside and cope...and I'm saying that's likely not the case.

You seem to be placing a higher importance on vision because it's a more tangible, obvious, and measurable condition. To you, it's thus more important...but a transgendered person who's entire life is affected by their condition might argue otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT btw...it appears that one of the 4 people named in the case is midway through the proceedure...then the procedure become delisted. They are fighting to have the rest of their procedure covered. That doesn't strike me as terribly unreasonable.

That is obviously quite understandable. However I think the issue here is simply a matter or priorities in terms of what should be listed or de-listed First. and thats where all these comparisons come into play.
Do I think sex change operations should be publicly funded? If its helping out people and society then of course. BUT thats only After certain other medical procedures are funded first. I dont mean to brutally simplify any of this because its not all black and white... but I think it's a matter of seeing what conditions are most life threatening or harmful and working your way down that list...

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Shit yeah, that's what I've been saying for years.

I dont look down on transsexuals at all. I thank god im not one because it must be terribly difficult. However, i still cannot buy their arguement that it violates their rights when so many common services are delisted.

My point here is not about whether it should be listed or not. My point is that if they win this case based on discrimination then why shouldnt i be able to fight for discrimintion based on having to pay for an eye exam? If not having the right "equipment" is grounds for discrimination then not being able to see properly is as well.

I don't really care if transsexuals get free operations or not. Personally i think it would be great if they did. But there is no justification for that to happen unless they relist all the other more common procedures first.

People who need glasses or contacts have rights too. Just because they don't fall into a special politically correct special interest group doesn't lessen that. (or it shouldnt at least)

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT You seem to be placing a higher importance on vision because it's a more tangible, obvious, and measurable condition. To you, it's thus more important...but a transgendered person who's entire life is affected by their condition might argue otherwise.

Actually im placing more emphisis on it because it affects more people and has safety implications in the workplace and on the road. I dont think wrongly having a penis has actually hurt anyone. (unless it was freaking huge) LOL

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill