my thoughts exactly...and different sized companies could contribute differently, with different "rewards". I think we *need* more private sector involvement. The various levels of gov't are NEVER going to come up with the money for significant expansion anytime soon...so bring on the companies with deep pockets!!!

Rogers, Bell, auto manufacturers, banks & insurance companies, sports conglomerates like Maple Leaf Entertainment, private investors, universities & colleges, retail giants (Wal-Mart, Sony, GE), etc.

In return they could get:

1. long-term, resaleable (with gov't/TTC approval) lease granting them naming rights for stations and/or entire lines (if the $$$ are right). This is already done with sports venues, sporting and cultural events, etc...so why not with transit?

2. a negotiated split of all advertising revenues in stations and suubway cars between the TTC and the investors.

3. retail opportunities in and around the stations controlled jointly by TTC and investors.

there are sooooo many possibilities to make this a more viable, attractive option...jeez, even revenue sharing for actual fares deposited at those particular stations, employee subsidy programs (eg. if Rogers put up money, employees ride at reduced cost, or free, whatever), etc.

The TTC and various levels of gov't need to get CREATIVE! Comparatively speaking, we have a decent, reliable transit system...but it's not 24 hours (which is *ridiculous*...even every 30 minutes overnight would be a great benefit)...and it's just not nearly adequate enough to service our growing population or convince people that it really is "the better way".

so who is showing this thread to whoever is in charge?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Not necessarily - investors and venture capitalists could provide the funding (what's the word for the corporations that do nothing but invest capital - incubators?). That's what they did with the dot coms. But maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, I don't know. I just keep looking at the 407 and thinking, hey, why can't they do that with the subway? I don't think the 407/ETR was started by any big corporation, but I could be wrong.

I totally agree with you when you mention the time,comfort,etc factors BUT....Corporate money with government controlled is ok but corporate control of an entire transportion system is not good...Corporations in their very nature are after that "bottom line" therefore would compromise safety in a transportation system as well as pay low wages to their workers & thus have an inferior system.

As a TTC employee (truck & coach technician), we are payed quite well with great benefits and therefore the moral is quite high which results in a happy workplace.The end result is superior workmanship on the vehicles (buses/streetcars/subway cars)...If the scenerio was a transit system owned by a private company and if I was working for them then I would be an unhappy worker making an "ok" wage (mechanics are payed pretty much at par no matter if its at the TTC or a dealership) but the benefits would be shit and the managment would be abusive towards the workers resulting in inferior workmanship and so on...

Human nature folks...if you treat them good then they will produce & do quality work but if ya shit on them for the sake of the profit margin then they will not give ya a good product.

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quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG. I totally agree with you when you mention the time,comfort,etc factors BUT....Corporate money with government controlled is ok but corporate control of an entire transportion system is not good...Corporations in their very nature are after that "bottom line" therefore would compromise safety in a transportation system as well as pay low wages to their workers & thus have an inferior system. As a TTC employee (truck & coach technician), we are payed quite well with great benefits and therefore the moral is quite high which results in a happy workplace.The end result is superior workmanship on the vehicles (buses/streetcars/subway cars)...If the scenerio was a transit system owned by a private company and if I was working for them then I would be an unhappy worker making an "ok" wage (mechanics are payed pretty much at par no matter if its at the TTC or a dealership) but the benefits would be shit and the managment would be abusive towards the workers resulting in inferior workmanship and so on... Human nature folks...if you treat them good then they will produce & do quality work but if ya shit on them for the sake of the profit margin then they will not give ya a good product.

so why wouldnt that apply to all buisness in that case? and in that case you are basically suggesting a communist society?

Of course TTC workers would be against this. If i were in a union making the wage they make id be against it too!

Its time to privatize! (under strict negotiated regulations though, thats the key)

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew so why wouldnt that apply to all buisness in that case? and in that case you are basically suggesting a communist society?

Wow, I'm surprised to see you pointing that out! Very true though!

quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG Corporations in their very nature are after that "bottom line" therefore would compromise safety in a transportation system as well as pay low wages to their workers & thus have an inferior system.

Okay, let me make this perfectly clear: Business is about the bottom line. But it is a FALLACY to assume that this automatically results in a shitty product/service! As a company, you need to please your customers, unless you have a monopoly, which in the case of Toronto is totally not the case because there is always the TTC/GO/Taxicabs/Limos/whatever. When you need to please your customers, you put out a good product!

As for safety: that is why you have safety regulations. That is done by the government, and it is the *only* thing the government should handle. Just make sure the company isn't putting anyone's life at risk without making those risks well-known - that's all.

quote:

The end result is superior workmanship on the vehicles (buses/streetcars/subway cars)...

Hahahaha

Toronto buys the TTC surface vehicles that Montreal throws away and re-brands them. The public sector has some of the shittiest transport vehicles in the whole world. Unless what you meant by "workmanship" was the "quality" of work delivered by bus/streetcar drivers - and in that case, how exactly are you measuring that quality? They drive a bus; aside from not hitting other vehicles or running over pedestrians, I don't think there's much room for quality improvement.

quote:

If the scenerio was a transit system owned by a private company and if I was working for them then I would be an unhappy worker making an "ok" wage (mechanics are payed pretty much at par no matter if its at the TTC or a dealership) but the benefits would be shit and the managment would be abusive towards the workers resulting in inferior workmanship and so on...

Why do you assume that all corporations are like this? I work in the private sector, my benefits aren't shit, my management is not abusive, and there is very high morale where I work.

What it all boils down to is that you're paid to do a job, so you do it. Unless the job is unsafe or you aren't getting paid on time, there's no excuse for doing it half-assed; if you don't like it, work somewhere else. Government employees are so spoiled!

quote:

Human nature folks...if you treat them good then they will produce & do quality work but if ya shit on them for the sake of the profit margin then they will not give ya a good product.

Most corporations out there realize that treating their workers well results in higher quality work.

Ask Durafei how much he "hates" his job at Google. I'm quite certain he will have very few negative things to say about it.

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Not to mention that i feel that companies should compete on the same lines. This will encourage all kinds of improvements just like other companies that constantly try to outdo the competition. Maybe one day each bus seat will have its own tv as a way to draw customers from the competing bus line?

Who knows what this could lead to.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Wow, I'm surprised to see you pointing that out! Very true though!

hey, i was just trying to tell him how good it would be with a communist society

j/k, im not as socialist (not at all really ) as you might think

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Why do you assume that all corporations are like this? I work in the private sector, my benefits aren't shit, my management is not abusive, and there is very high morale where I work. What it all boils down to is that you're paid to do a job, so you do it. Unless the job is unsafe or you aren't getting paid on time, there's no excuse for doing it half-assed; if you don't like it, work somewhere else. Government employees are so spoiled!

lol, so true. I work for a private company too, and while I often bitch and complain about it, they're a pretty good place to work for. Oh, and the service we provide is pretty good, because unlike in a unionized hotel, we can get in shit for doing a half-assed job which would impact the hotels business.

quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG. I totally agree with you when you mention the time,comfort,etc factors BUT....Corporate money with government controlled is ok but corporate control of an entire transportion system is not good...Corporations in their very nature are after that "bottom line" therefore would compromise safety in a transportation system as well as pay low wages to their workers & thus have an inferior system. As a TTC employee (truck & coach technician), we are payed quite well with great benefits and therefore the moral is quite high which results in a happy workplace.The end result is superior workmanship on the vehicles (buses/streetcars/subway cars)...If the scenerio was a transit system owned by a private company and if I was working for them then I would be an unhappy worker making an "ok" wage (mechanics are payed pretty much at par no matter if its at the TTC or a dealership) but the benefits would be shit and the managment would be abusive towards the workers resulting in inferior workmanship and so on... Human nature folks...if you treat them good then they will produce & do quality work but if ya shit on them for the sake of the profit margin then they will not give ya a good product.

That's assuming that the private corp. pays shite...
There are a lot of private corp. that pay very well and really take care of their employees as well.
(Like where I'm at)

As a side note on funding the subway, why not have major corp. sponser the subway stops?
Not sure about the railing inbetween, maybe a percentage from each corp. depending on the number of stops?
Just a thought...

Listen to us, TOTA hedgefunding a Toronto subway hahahha

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Last edited by Fir3start3r on Dec-24-2004 at 05:31

Subways are incredibly expensive to build.

We should be looking at LRT's / trams / above-ground rail as an alternative. Expanding GO Transit is an option.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]Wow, Hahahaha Toronto buys the TTC surface vehicles that Montreal throws away and re-brands them. The public sector has some of the shittiest transport vehicles in the whole world. Unless what you meant by "workmanship" was the "quality" of work delivered by bus/streetcar drivers - and in that case, how exactly are you measuring that quality? They drive a bus; aside from not hitting other vehicles or running over pedestrians, I don't think there's much room for quality improvement. THe TTC didn't have a choice after the Harris years so they had to buy those buses...And DIGINIT....I personally know that when we got a hold of those buses...WE...including myself...with my own hands...with my own crew...we're very proud of the shape of those buses AFTER we we're done with them...they we're like new...NOw they are being scrapped because of the new ORION 7 and those buses are crap (cracks in the body work, etc...)...those old GM buses we're the best engineered buses ever built...but I digress... I have also worked in the private sector & know how bad some companies run their businesses and their employees.My brother had worked for the big companies like Amex, AT&T , Adidas Canada and now works for a great company (The Carson Group)...The reason he was laid off from the previous companies was downsizing...What pisses me off with these big corporations is that with one swoop they eliminate a group of employees that have mortgages for the sake of the stock holders & CEO bonuses...I believe that everyone should be able to work for a company without worrying if they have a job in 6 months.I know that this is a fantasy nowadays but does that make it right? "What it all boils down to is that you're paid to do a job, so you do it. Unless the job is unsafe or you aren't getting paid on time, there's no excuse for doing it half-assed; if you don't like it, work somewhere else. Government employees are so spoiled!" Do you believe that everyone should barely get by on what they earn?.I mean the gap between the rich & poor is very wide...So if that means that I am represented by a union that will keep my head above water with a descent wage & make sure that management is not abusive ( and some TTC foremans can be), then yeah I guess that would make me "spoiled".

Sorry that I didn't change the colour of my reply

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