quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 So now its not just corperations but also society's fault for bad parenting and fast food cravings?

Hey, hey....don't go changing the words. It isn't about fault...it's about responsibility.
Everyone is responsible indirectly. If you run a company and they are purchasing meat from a non-reputable source and that meat has not properly been inspected, then you are indirectly responsible for harming the public b/c you sell that meat.

In law there is a system called chain of command. A person cannot sue another, unless he follows the chain. He'd have to sue you, in order to justify going after the bigger problem. Even then he has only two options....civil litigation and criminal/govt. regulation. When lobbyiest put in blocks, that cuts the chain of command and limits liability for the onus of responsibility to corporation. When that happens, then basically the corporation is also limiting and controlling regulations put in to protect each and everyones rights.

It's not always about buyer beware. Not everyone knows how to deal with everything that happens in their life. That's why regulations were put in place...as a way to measure and protect individuals.

Society is not directly responsible....but it is indirectly. It's our tax paying dollars that go towards the education of a child. When funding cuts are made, then that limits the education and stumps the childs development and his ability to understand essentials. It's a vicious cycle then gets repeated through generations....which eventually down spiral our family values and the preservation of a good quality of life.

___________________
Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

Ok fine. If mcdonalds knowingly sold bad meat (bad being poison or infected with bacteria) then there is just cause. But suing a company because someone ate there everyday and got fat?

Give me a break.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

I think I'm gonna go get me some McDonald's right now! Mmmm, multiple quarter pounders... however, I think I will pass on the protein platter (AKA double-priced hamburger without bread).


And as for this whole debate, the courts used to have a saying that really nailed the issue down:

Let the buyer beware!

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quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz IMHO I feel Twilly and Karim have made some valid points... Firstly, being a parent isn't always planned (so it's illogical to say that a person has no business being a parent if you can't control your kids)and fast food is unfortunately the only choice a parent has when there is little time to make dinner. Sometimes our fast paced city lifestyle obligates both parent to work (to make ends meet) and to cut corners when it comes to cooking. Especially if the parent has to contribute their free time for thier childs extra curricular activities after school. It's not as if we all have nannies, cooks and maids to make things easy on us.

First, lets deal with your "unplanned" parenting. You know what people should do when they don't want kids? I do, and it's 100% effective. Here it is, it's a little "out there" so please bear with me... DON'T HAVE SEX! There, you've been enlightened. There's NO excuse.

Ok, on to your 'lack of time' argument. Maybe these people should be cutting things out of their schedule if they don't have 30 minutes to make dinner. Working for 8 hours a day is no excuse not to eat properly, what's wrong with the other 16 hours of the day? Maybe parents should't be letting their kids take piano lessons on monday, horseback riding on tuesday, soccer on wednesday, swimming lessons on thursday, and karate on friday. My parents were always pretty smart... when they made dinner one night, they'd prepare things that could be re-heated for the next day, it's called 'using your time wisely', which is a lost art these days. I'm not perfect either, I eat fast-food daily, I love it, it's very convenient, and when I have diabetes and high cholesterol, I know who to blame (here's a hint: it isn't McDonalds). There's a book that's been written called "The art of Slow" or something like that, you should give it a read. It's about how people try to do too much these days, then blame their problems on lack of time. Then is explains how to fix the problem. I wouldn't have enough time in my day either if I was taking piano/swimming/horseback riding/karate/math tutoring etc. etc. etc.

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Secondly an over controlling parent will guarantee a bad parent child relationship. All parents can do today is teach them the difference between good and bad, then hope for the best from that child. Even if you teach the child that fast food is bad, it still does not stop them from wanting the food and with the bombarding of commercials and advertising (not including the friends that entice you to take that trip to Micky D), it does not make it easy on the parent either. I'm sure all mommies and daddies have said no booze or drugs....so you be the judge...does the average clubber do what the parents tell them not to do?

Now telling your kids they can't have McDonalds is "over controlling"?! HOLY SHIT! My parents gave me 5 bucks a week and said "Too bad" if I wanted that Nintendo game, and I'd wasted all my money on candy. And whenever I think back on it I think "Man, they taught me some valuable life lessons on money management." And so what if your kid wants McDonalds? That doesn't mean you have to run out and buy it for them, you'd be amazed at how well "You aren't eating til you finish your brocolli" works on kids, eventually, they always eat that brocolli... unless the parents are wimps. My mom and dad taught me to be a responsible drinker, and I respected that they could accept my decision to drink, but were still able to coach me to do it responsibly. I come from a christian home, they didn't tell me "Don't have sex" (although they said they'd be extremely proud of me if I made the decision to hold off til I'm married), they taught me to respect females and made sure I understood all the risks involved with sex, they didn't just leave it to the schools to do their job, they did it THEMSELVES! And I took those lessons, and committed them to my decision-making for the rest of my life. But I guess in your world, they were being over-controlling.

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Thirdly, in "Super Size Me" I think the point was not just about the fast food being bad....but also about the unhealthy additives in processed food...and how fast our bodies can be affected by poor eating habits. It's no wonder that North America (Canada included) suffers so much from Diabetis...practically every food contains sugar as a preservative. Is sugar necessary in our diets.....NO! Now just think of how many preservatives there are in say a McDonald's salad....do you seriously think that there aren't any (anyone who's tried keeping a salad with cold cuts/meats/hard boiled eggs etc, fresh looking in their fridge till next day can tell you that it's virtually impossible....unless it came from a fast food)? And do you actually believe that a corporation is doing business in the best interest of the public....No! They are there to make money. So before saying that parent should be "TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS" then it should also be said that Corporation should also take responsibility for their actions too.

Dude, it's common knowledge that Fast-Food is horrible for you, it's common knowledge that excersize is a necessity to good health, it's common knowledge that corperations will say and do ANYTHING they are allowed to do, to try and make you buy their product. We are taught all these things, there's NO excuse for your own poor judgement.

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IMO....this law was put in b/c lobbyists did their job well. Is it good....maybe...maybe it will make parents more cautious and educated about the health of their child. Was it the best solution....I don't think so. I believe a child should also get truthful and honest food education in schools, so that he/she can make good and healthy food choices in life. Till that happens, then the problem of a corporations self interest will continue at the cost of a childs health.

They DO get truthful and honest food education in schools. I was taught that we shouldn't eat Fast Food because it can kill me. That was truthful and honest... what did they teach YOU? On top of that, a parent should never provide their child with enough personal income that they could cause serious damage to their bodies when the parent isn't around, they the parent is doing that, they are not a good parent, and it's THEIR fault their kid is dying, not the corperation's.

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Besides, how is it possible that anyone can hold a parent responsible for everything their child does wrong. That kind of a mindset can only come from a person that is not mature and has never been responsible for anyone but themselves in their life.

It's not about holding the parent responsible for everything their child does wrong. It's about the parent not providing the child with the means to carry those decisions out. If a parent finds an Eminem cd in their 12 year-old's room, and feels that it is no good for their kid, they should be removing that CD from the child's possession. If a parent finds out their child is eating McDonalds every day with their allowance, they should be lowering the ammount they give to that child. If a parent finds out their child is smoking, they should be looking around their kid's room and knapsack, and getting rid of those cigarette's the kid loves so much, also, making sure that the money their kid is getting for allowance isn't paying for the habit, teach that kid "Hey, if you want to kill yourself, you use YOUR money, not mine, get a job. Until you quit, no more allowance." I had an allowance, then I dropped out of school. My parents said "hey, you're not in school, get a job, we aren't paying to let you live in our house and do nothing with your life, while you're at it, when you DO get a job, you get to pay 40 bucks a week to live with us and eat our food." I've learned more about personal finance in the last year than I ever did while getting 25 bucks a week for being a "good kid".

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 au contrare. We are doing quite well but i honestly dont mind being outside with the sign because it usually drives immediate business up 20%. Plus it gets me some fresh air. Id much rather be doing that then be stuck inside all day but thats just me.

I loved dancing around with the signs too, it was easier and much less stressful than making pizza and dealing with customers You'll also note that I said it's USUALLY an indication of poor business, not always. And in LC's specific case, it's exactly that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Ok fine. If mcdonalds knowingly sold bad meat (bad being poison or infected with bacteria) then there is just cause. But suing a company because someone ate there everyday and got fat? Give me a break.

I think your missing my point....about chain of command

it's not about blaming for becoming fat...its to take chain of command and go after the real culprits of unnecessary or harmful food additives.
Haven't you ever stopped to ask why a burger at McDonalds is cheaper than a fresh salad.
Think of the harmful additives in vegetable and of the harmful preservative in meat. Which is the better of the two evils. How would a child know about preservatives. It's not as if they are taught about this in school (especially not with so much cut backs).

All that McDonald's (the corporation) is concerned about is budgets, costs and good year ends. So basically they will favour buying a ready made salad mix from the cheapest supplier without having access to information about where that supplier got the salad from...which could be from some 3rd world country using child workers and below standards regulations...which gets imported easily because of relaxed regulations manipulated by lobbyists working for other corps that have a financial self interest. In the end....the public looses....value and standards of life...which is our inherent right.

___________________
Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz I think your missing my point....about chain of command it's not about blaming for becoming fat...its to take chain of command and go after the real culprits of unnecessary or harmful food additives. Haven't you ever stopped to ask why a burger at McDonalds is cheaper than a fresh salad. Think of the harmful additives in vegetable and of the harmful preservative in meat. Which is the better of the two evils. How would a child know about preservatives. It's not as if they are taught about this in school (especially not with so much cut backs). All that McDonald's (the corporation) is concerned about is budgets, costs and good year ends. So basically they will favour buying a ready made salad mix from the cheapest supplier without having access to information about where that supplier got the salad from...which could be from some 3rd world country using child workers and below standards regulations...which gets imported easily because of relaxed regulations manipulated by lobbyists working for other corps that have a financial self interest. In the end....the public looses....value and standards of life...which is our inherent right.

I think a hamburger is cheaper than a salad because half and ounce of meat, a quarter ounce of lettuce, a slice of tomatoe, a squirt of ketchup and mayo, and a 5 cent bun costs the business less than 8 ounces of lettuce, 4 chunks of tomatoe and cucumber, 3-4 containers of dressing and a dash of parmesian cheese.

Oh I forgot one thing, someone made a comment like "does the average clubber do what their parents tell them not to do?" Pre-teens don't go clubbing. The average 12-year-old doesn't really have the option to do what their parents tell them not to do - how do you propose they would do it, unless their parents are (irresponsibly) giving them an assload of disposable income and not digging into how it gets spent?

Once kids hit clubbing age, they're perfectly capable of forming good eating habits if their parents have brought them up on good eating habits. It's not even an excuse if their parents never taught them to cook, because by age 14 you can take a friggin' night school course on it.

There's no "relaxed regulations" on the fast food business. The regulations are exactly as they should be - no contaminants, no parasites, no rotten food, no rats in the kitchen. McDonald's has some food that's not that unhealthy, it's just that most people don't eat it! If all restaurants were required to serve ONLY "healthy" food then they'd pretty much all instantly go out of business.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
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buying food from third world countries is a good thing. Why? Because even if the farmer makes 1/3 of what they make here its comparing apples to oranges. WHY? because perhaps that farmer's cost of living down there is 1/3 of what it is here? I always shudder when people compare countries using solely income and exchange rates. I was able to earn 1500 pesos a month and pay 150 for rent on an apartment twice the size of the one i pay 800 for in canada. Work that 1500 out into US dollars and i was making $500US a month. Shit money for here but amazing to live on in argentina.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Oh I forgot one thing, someone made a comment like "does the average clubber do what their parents tell them not to do?" ... There's no "relaxed regulations" on the fast food business. The regulations are exactly as they should be - no contaminants, no parasites, no rotten food, no rats in the kitchen. McDonald's has some food that's not that unhealthy, it's just that most people don't eat it! If all restaurants were required to serve ONLY "healthy" food then they'd pretty much all instantly go out of business.

Firstly some clubbers (regardless of what the parents say) can get caught up in the moment and the crowd....they get drunk or do drugs....it's life. The same applies with kids and fast food....parents and schools set rules....kids breakem...it's how it is.
If anyone thinks it's different, then nothing I say...will convince or prepare you for what awaits you later on...when you have kids.

If you think that there are no relaxed regulations...then your wrong. Many precedent cases contradict your view. Why do you think the colour system was put in for restaurants. Have you ever really bothered to look into why some of the dt chinese restaurants were shut down. Yes for contaminants. Yes for rotten food. Yes to rats and pets in the kitchen. Yes to roaches in your meals. Yes to hairs in your food.

RE: I think a hamburger is cheaper than a salad because half and ounce of meat, a quarter ounce of lettuce, a slice of tomatoe, a squirt of ketchup and mayo, and a 5 cent bun costs the business less than 8 ounces of lettuce, 4 chunks of tomatoe and cucumber, 3-4 containers of dressing and a dash of parmesian cheese.

Why is that..hmmmmmmmmmmm? Why would fresh food grown from the grown, picked and washed and served in a container cost more than a piece of meat that is chopped and processed in a factory then spiced up and packaged by a supplier and then put on to a sugar coated bun with ketchup & Mayo (also laced in sugar) and a few sprigs of the same vegetables in a salad? Why is it so hard for you to see the obvious common sense logic that the salad should cost less. How much do you pay for meat when you do your groceries vs. buying lettuce an tomatoe and a cucumber? Do you really feel that confident as to profess a great education from your parents and school, yet you can't see this one?

Not everyone lives as priviledged a life as you do. Some don't even have 2 parents or get an allowance. Many live below poverty. Are you saying you have no respect for them? Are you saying that if they are stupid to buy into bad food then they deserve it.
As a consumer.....would you want to spend more on something that has a somewhat good taste and is healthy vs. spending less on something that just tastes good? How can you think a child would know the difference. Your not making any sense.

Recently I was invited to a focus group about fast food. I actually sat across from a high income well educated earner who thought that there is no carbs in vegetable such as mashed potatoes, broccoli or cauliflower. That same person thought that Kentucky Fried Chicken was health food. After witnessing that display of education....I can't help but feel concerned for the education and manipulation of kids by self interest corporations.
Do you even understand the legality of why the expression buyer beware is used?

___________________
Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

You're missing the point. The point is there's a LOT more food in a salad than there is in a hamburger, 4 chunks of tomatoe could be an entire tomatoe, as opposed to the 1/10th of a tomatoe they put on a hamburger. That lettuce in a salad could be as much as half a head of lettuce, much more lettuce than than couple of leaves they throw onto a hamburger. Those 4 containers of dressing cost a lot more than a squirt of ketchup and mayonaisse. The 5 cent bun costs a lot less than the 4 slices of cucumber on that salad. And I haven't even listed everything they put on some of those salads. Also the container they put the salad in is more expensive, plastic containers cost more than paper bags or tiny cardboard boxes. It also takes longer to make a salad, which means a higher labour cost than the 15 seconds it takes to make a hamburger.

I also want to add that those poverty people are idiots if they're buying fast food for 6-7 bucks a meal rather than buying some kraft dinner, a loaf of bread and drinking tap water for 2-3 dollars a day. It takes effort to live comfortably.

Also, education =/= intelligence. Most school-work is redundant, easy, and you simply have to do it to earn a good mark. This includes much university and college work that I've seen. Many people have a higher education and well-paying jobs simply because they could buy them, not because they actually earned their degree. The people who deserve some REAL respect are the ones who started their own business and succeeded in making a living while doing so, that takes REAL intelligence, problem solving skills and creativity. Not writing "School is good" 50 times on a piece of paper and handing it in.

Last edited by Spam on Jan-03-2005 at 01:29

quote:

Originally posted by b4k-oz Firstly some clubbers (regardless of what the parents say) can get caught up in the moment and the crowd....they get drunk or do drugs....it's life. The same applies with kids and fast food....parents and schools set rules....kids breakem...it's how it is. If anyone thinks it's different, then nothing I say...will convince or prepare you for what awaits you later on...when you have kids.

You're missing the point. A 19-year-old has enough independence to break the rules; a 12-year-old doesn't unless his parents are irresponsible.

quote:

If you think that there are no relaxed regulations...then your wrong. Many precedent cases contradict your view. Why do you think the colour system was put in for restaurants. Have you ever really bothered to look into why some of the dt chinese restaurants were shut down. Yes for contaminants. Yes for rotten food. Yes to rats and pets in the kitchen. Yes to roaches in your meals. Yes to hairs in your food.

Yes... that's why those restaurants were SHUT DOWN!! If you bother to read the health code you'll see that it is far from lenient.

quote:

Why is that..hmmmmmmmmmmm? Why would fresh food grown from the grown, picked and washed and served in a container cost more than a piece of meat that is chopped and processed in a factory then spiced up and packaged by a supplier and then put on to a sugar coated bun with ketchup & Mayo (also laced in sugar) and a few sprigs of the same vegetables in a salad? Why is it so hard for you to see the obvious common sense logic that the salad should cost less. How much do you pay for meat when you do your groceries vs. buying lettuce an tomatoe and a cucumber? Do you really feel that confident as to profess a great education from your parents and school, yet you can't see this one?

I think we all know that they put filler and preservatives in the meat. They don't try to hide this. McDonald's in Canada has pamphlets in the restaurant with nutritional information on all their products, if anyone bothers to look at it - and if they don't bother to look at it, then it's their own damn fault for eating it.

quote:

Not everyone lives as priviledged a life as you do. Some don't even have 2 parents or get an allowance. Many live below poverty. Are you saying you have no respect for them? Are you saying that if they are stupid to buy into bad food then they deserve it.

What does the first part of that paragraph have to do with the second part? I seriously don't think these lawsuits are filed by homeless kids living below the poverty line. I think most of them are more worried about malnutrition than obesity.

quote:

As a consumer.....would you want to spend more on something that has a somewhat good taste and is healthy vs. spending less on something that just tastes good? How can you think a child would know the difference. Your not making any sense.

I'm making perfect sense. A child doesn't have the option to choose what just tastes good as opposed to what's healthy. And if the child does have that option, then either he or she is WAY too old to be considered a child, or the parents are not being responsible!

Let me spell this out for you: CHILDREN GET FED BY THEIR PARENTS. If the parents are too fucking lazy to cook and too fucking cheap to go out to a decent restaurant, and take their kids to McDonald's several times a week, then IT'S THE PARENTS' FAULT that the kids are obese.

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I can't help but feel concerned for the education and manipulation of kids by self interest corporations.

And I can't help but feel concerned for the manipulation and LACK of education of lazy loudmouth victimizers and political lobbyists who abuse the system for personal gain and to exculpate themselves from their own lack of responsibility.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here