One thing, I've been spinning for roughly over two years now, and whilst I have cd decks, I also started out using vinyl, and still do. My collection consists of nearly 600 vinyls, you do the math. That's well over $6,000.00 USD with shipping and the ever so rising price of a record; all while going to a University, all while living on my own, all while running my own business. You can't come over here and say people are cheap '****s' for buying MP3's/CD's. It's not cheap, its practical.

You say that PRO DJ's only use vinyls as promo's from record labels? Here's one quick example to disprove your theory:

Markus Schulz Top 10:

1. Hammer & Bennet- Language [CDR]
2. SW Presents Jagermaestro - Quarter Century [CDR]
3. Andrew Bennett - Ocean Drive (Probspot Remix) [EE]
4. Hydroid- Blue Tubes [CDR]
5. Sunquest - Summer Times (Michael Feihstel Increasing Blur Remix) [CDR]
6. Mike Foyle Present Statica - Space Guitar [CDR]
7. Ava Mea - In The End [CDR]
8. Ozgur Can - Connected (Santiago Nino Remix) [CDR]
9. Nick Thompson - Spice Fire [CDR]
10. Peter Mckowan - Trailer Park Boy [CDR]

And not only does Markus use CDR's from producers, but all top jocks do. Whether is be Sasha, Diggers, Oakenfold, Armin, or who have you.

You have still yet to disprove anything I have brought forth. I brought up non-dj's only to show that the music industry isn't hurting with MP3's. That's just the point, its not just concentrated on the DJ anymore. This is a business, and obviously a huge point in your reactions. Why would you get upset in a business standpoint if you could make more money, all while helping the industry more?

And about all the music that's coming from the 12-18 yr old pack. That is the future of music my friend. I don't see anything you are putting out to be on top selling list. You have no room to criticize other producers when you don't have anything of your own to back it up. These young producers and all producers currently are bombarding the scene with music. WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD THING? You might get cookie cutter songs on occasion, but now there's more to choose from, more to pick out from the rest. It's only good for the scene not bad.

Once again, lose your pride for the 'everlasting vinyl' story. Say bye to them in the next year. Record labels will do without them and CD's/MP3's will flood the market and keep businesses striving. Your proud record label will fall with emergence of CD Decks and Abelton Live, and Final Scratch. Give it up man, vinyl won't be here much longer...and neither will you and your business if you don't get your head out of your ass...

___________________
Looking Forward to Yesterday

quote:

Originally posted by Steven Hays One thing, I've been spinning for roughly over two years now, and whilst I have cd decks, I also started out using vinyl, and still do. My collection consists of nearly 600 vinyls, you do the math. That's well over $6,000.00 USD with shipping and the ever so rising price of a record; all while going to a University, all while living on my own, all while running my own business. You can't come over here and say people are cheap '****s' for buying MP3's/CD's. It's not cheap, its practical. You say that PRO DJ's only use vinyls as promo's from record labels? Here's one quick example to disprove your theory: Markus Schulz Top 10: 1. Hammer & Bennet- Language [CDR] 2. SW Presents Jagermaestro - Quarter Century [CDR] 3. Andrew Bennett - Ocean Drive (Probspot Remix) [EE] 4. Hydroid- Blue Tubes [CDR] 5. Sunquest - Summer Times (Michael Feihstel Increasing Blur Remix) [CDR] 6. Mike Foyle Present Statica - Space Guitar [CDR] 7. Ava Mea - In The End [CDR] 8. Ozgur Can - Connected (Santiago Nino Remix) [CDR] 9. Nick Thompson - Spice Fire [CDR] 10. Peter Mckowan - Trailer Park Boy [CDR] And not only does Markus use CDR's from producers, but all top jocks do. Whether is be Sasha, Diggers, Oakenfold, Armin, or who have you. You have still yet to disprove anything I have brought forth. I brought up non-dj's only to show that the music industry isn't hurting with MP3's. That's just the point, its not just concentrated on the DJ anymore. This is a business, and obviously a huge point in your reactions. Why would you get upset in a business standpoint if you could make more money, all while helping the industry more? And about all the music that's coming from the 12-18 yr old pack. That is the future of music my friend. I don't see anything you are putting out to be on top selling list. You have no room to criticize other producers when you don't have anything of your own to back it up. These young producers and all producers currently are bombarding the scene with music. WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD THING? You might get cookie cutter songs on occasion, but now there's more to choose from, more to pick out from the rest. It's only good for the scene not bad. Once again, lose your pride for the 'everlasting vinyl' story. Say bye to them in the next year. Record labels will do without them and CD's/MP3's will flood the market and keep businesses striving. Your proud record label will fall with emergence of CD Decks and Abelton Live, and Final Scratch. Give it up man, vinyl won't be here much longer...and neither will you and your business if you don't get your head out of your ass...

Totally Agree,

Almost every big DJ these days is playing more and more CDRs. It's just much more convenient. Think of how it this way. Let's say that Gabriel and Dresden finish a remix. They can send Markus the MP3 online, and he can burn it to a CDR and burn it that same day. Instead of what? Waiting at least a couple of weeks for the song to have promo copies pressed. So, CDRs allow the producers to get their songs out there to DJs quicker, and DJs can play the very newest stuff without having to wait.

stop with the bashing.

we all know the newest and hottest promos come out on cdr first. One of these days youll experience the day like i have when a record label manager (ie: yoshitoshi) will ask if you want some promos straight from the studio and they are all cdrs. You will never look at vinyl the same way.

___________________
When you start to criticize the times you live in, your time is over. ~Karl Lagerfeld

I love vinyl no doubt, i really do, and i just bought a bunch a couple of days ago. But think. when a dj visits ur town, and ur opening lets say, u have ur own tracks he has his own, ur not gonna trade vinyl, ur gonna trade cds. its so much more convinient. i see what ur saying lithium, but u need to find a middle ground.

When a freind of mine came to spin in Peru, he gave me a cd with his tracks which were going to be released on vinyl soon, i was only in peru for that week, and he was only there for a day, but there was an opportunity to trade and connect, there was no way a vinyl exchange could happen in those circumstances. Is it wrong i have his tracks now? im not going to share them, and he wont share mine.. why is this bad?

___________________
Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

So, if I buy hmm... let's say 8 Wonders - The Morning After (Thrillseekers Remix) [Somatic Sense] from beatport, do I have the same rights as anyone else who bought the vinyl?

___________________
Reason 4 | Behringer 2030A | E-MU 0404 | Sennheiser HD 555 | Behringer Xenyx 802

quote:

Originally posted by djsphere So, if I buy hmm... let's say 8 Wonders - The Morning After (Thrillseekers Remix) [Somatic Sense] from beatport, do I have the same rights as anyone else who bought the vinyl?

The answer is no. You are not permited to us them in a compilation mix. Read beat ports terms of use again and its in there. And no, this doesn't mean they are say you "can't sell them in a mix blah blah" you can use them period in a compilation mix, give away or otherwise.

And Steven, notice that these are all from LABELS if you read my post again before you will notice that all these "CD or CD-R" tracks are from vinyl pressing labels and they press vinyl almost immediately after or well before on whites to promote the full release, vinyl, CD-R or otherwise.

Take your "practical" arguments and think a bit further down the road.

And who cares what pro djs do? I certainly do not as I have heard a lot of these guys play live and frankly the suck some serious ass and that means they have lost the right to be called pro-djs when the local bedroom guys playing on vinyl can tear their heads off playing records and give the crowd the much needed energy needed but is missing in the performance of material off CD or a laptop. Besides, pro-djs are getting free promos anyway at their level. Record labels don't make money from sales to these guys, only from licensing deals having the tracks appear on their compilation mixed releases on CD at retail stores. But right now it seems all people are doing is "giving away mixes for free" << how does that help sales of the tracks or prove each track or DJs viability as a top notch performer if someone doesn't value it enough to slap down cold hard cash? can it be justified as being beneficial in promotions? Perhaps but only to a certain extent. All it does is further discount and devaule the music to a point where its no longer a viable business considering the costs for production.

BTW, Paul Oakenfold dropped one of our records over the summer at a gig in Calgary and while that was nice, the guy mixed so badly it was almost embarrassing - not for just our record, but for all the records and cds he played. But it got worse when he went to CD.

Are we seeing a pattern here yet?

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

Last edited by djlithium on Jan-13-2005 at 18:02

quote:

Originally posted by sym Totally Agree, Almost every big DJ these days is playing more and more CDRs. It's just much more convenient. Think of how it this way. Let's say that Gabriel and Dresden finish a remix. They can send Markus the MP3 online, and he can burn it to a CDR and burn it that same day. Instead of what? Waiting at least a couple of weeks for the song to have promo copies pressed. So, CDRs allow the producers to get their songs out there to DJs quicker, and DJs can play the very newest stuff without having to wait.

What's the rush? Every week approximately 400-500 new vinyl dance tracks are released. You are telling me you burn through that much material so fast that you need "more more more"?
I doubt it if you actually had the opportunity to listen to this stuff, and you do, order and get it shipped to your location in a few days. too bad you don't have a shop locally if thats the case but if you do, go down and go through the bins, if the selection sucks, then let the owner know and get him to show you the lists in advance of release for what is coming out from his wholesaler.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

quote:

Originally posted by Steven Hays One thing, I've been spinning for roughly over two years now, and whilst I have cd decks, I also started out using vinyl, and still do. My collection consists of nearly 600 vinyls, you do the math. That's well over $6,000.00 USD with shipping and the ever so rising price of a record; all while going to a University, all while living on my own, all while running my own business. You can't come over here and say people are cheap '****s' for buying MP3's/CD's. It's not cheap, its practical. You say that PRO DJ's only use vinyls as promo's from record labels? Here's one quick example to disprove your theory: Markus Schulz Top 10: 1. Hammer & Bennet- Language [CDR] 2. SW Presents Jagermaestro - Quarter Century [CDR] 3. Andrew Bennett - Ocean Drive (Probspot Remix) [EE] 4. Hydroid- Blue Tubes [CDR] 5. Sunquest - Summer Times (Michael Feihstel Increasing Blur Remix) [CDR] 6. Mike Foyle Present Statica - Space Guitar [CDR] 7. Ava Mea - In The End [CDR] 8. Ozgur Can - Connected (Santiago Nino Remix) [CDR] 9. Nick Thompson - Spice Fire [CDR] 10. Peter Mckowan - Trailer Park Boy [CDR] And not only does Markus use CDR's from producers, but all top jocks do. Whether is be Sasha, Diggers, Oakenfold, Armin, or who have you. You have still yet to disprove anything I have brought forth. I brought up non-dj's only to show that the music industry isn't hurting with MP3's. That's just the point, its not just concentrated on the DJ anymore. This is a business, and obviously a huge point in your reactions. Why would you get upset in a business standpoint if you could make more money, all while helping the industry more? And about all the music that's coming from the 12-18 yr old pack. That is the future of music my friend. I don't see anything you are putting out to be on top selling list. You have no room to criticize other producers when you don't have anything of your own to back it up. These young producers and all producers currently are bombarding the scene with music. WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD THING? You might get cookie cutter songs on occasion, but now there's more to choose from, more to pick out from the rest. It's only good for the scene not bad. Once again, lose your pride for the 'everlasting vinyl' story. Say bye to them in the next year. Record labels will do without them and CD's/MP3's will flood the market and keep businesses striving. Your proud record label will fall with emergence of CD Decks and Abelton Live, and Final Scratch. Give it up man, vinyl won't be here much longer...and neither will you and your business if you don't get your head out of your ass...

Actually I have disproven all of it but you keep blinding yourself to the full post and only read the parts which seem to warrant a reply from a "cheap ****". That means you.
If anything Black Tiger Recordings will be expanding this year so again your BS about this whole argument has been tossed aside. As for labels like Nukleuz going down the tubes, well thats strictly a management issue, not sales. Vinyl is still outselling digital downloads and CDs by many factors and the people who play vinyl get book easier, paid to play and go further faster. Why? Because while it should be "about the music" it also helps if you can hold a mix for longer than 4 bars and give the crowd a show. Technics SL1200's are Katanas. CDDJ decks are pop(music)guns. What's more impressive to watch?

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

"And about all the music that's coming from the 12-18 yr old pack. That is the future of music my friend. I don't see anything you are putting out to be on top selling list. You have no room to criticize other producers when you don't have anything of your own to back it up. These young producers and all producers currently are bombarding the scene with music. WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD THING? You might get cookie cutter songs on occasion, but now there's more to choose from, more to pick out from the rest. It's only good for the scene not bad."

Actually we have had all four of our BTR Vinyl releases hit the top ten for sales at djmr.com in the trance and progressive charts immediately on release. Go here http://www.djmr.com/scripts/categor...category=trance

Our 4th release - DJ Virgen - "Eyes of Innocence" entered this list at number one and stayed there for 2 months before dropping to number 5 and now number 8. Meanwhile other records from tiesto, filo and peri and gabriel and dresden have come and gone.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium "And about all the music that's coming from the 12-18 yr old pack. That is the future of music my friend. I don't see anything you are putting out to be on top selling list. You have no room to criticize other producers when you don't have anything of your own to back it up. These young producers and all producers currently are bombarding the scene with music. WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD THING? You might get cookie cutter songs on occasion, but now there's more to choose from, more to pick out from the rest. It's only good for the scene not bad." Actually we have had all four of our BTR Vinyl releases hit the top ten for sales at djmr.com in the trance and progressive charts immediately on release. Go here http://www.djmr.com/scripts/categor...category=trance Our 4th release - DJ Virgen - "Eyes of Innocence" entered this list at number one and stayed there for 2 months before dropping to number 5 and now number 8. Meanwhile other records from tiesto, filo and peri and gabriel and dresden have come and gone.

Look, some of what you're saying makes sense. Other parts are just completely opinionated and unfortunately your opinion doesn't count for much right now. The reason being is that you just signed up for this, have never posted here before and then you bring all this wind about how you're right and everyone else is stupid.

You might have wanted to take a more diplomatic approach if you wanted any of your posts to be taken more seriously. I have never heard of you or your label before so by reputation alone you're not very impressive to me. Try building some rapport with people before blasting everyone.

Just some advice

___________________
Helping girls make bad decisions since 1979

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium It will also contain a complete and detailed outline on changing the current "model" for how things are done allowing for greater creativity

How do pushing the release of dance music tracks only on vinyl allow for greater creativity?

If I have a track on CD, I can edit it to give it the sound and feel that I want when playing it out that night and then tweak it anytime I want in the future such that it fits my sets the way I want.

How does vinyl give me an equal amount of creativity?

PS - Why are you going into a tirade about the rights of usage for digital downloads in livesets when you are offering up downloads of live sets containing other artists work right on your website and asking money for copies of the sets? So you argue that "the big ticket is compilation mixed disc releases from djs who will play those records and license them" - so why would people go out and buy these "big-ticket" mixed compilations when people like you are offering mix CDs up for free download (or arguably charging for them without the artist's permission) on their website.

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium Actually I have disproven all of it but you keep blinding yourself to the full post and only read the parts which seem to warrant a reply from a "cheap ****". That means you. If anything Black Tiger Recordings will be expanding this year so again your BS about this whole argument has been tossed aside. As for labels like Nukleuz going down the tubes, well thats strictly a management issue, not sales. Vinyl is still outselling digital downloads and CDs by many factors and the people who play vinyl get book easier, paid to play and go further faster. Why? Because while it should be "about the music" it also helps if you can hold a mix for longer than 4 bars and give the crowd a show. Technics SL1200's are Katanas. CDDJ decks are pop(music)guns. What's more impressive to watch?

You make some good points, but other things you say I don't agree with.

Explain how using vinyl equates to "being able to hold a mix for longer than 4 bars"? Vinyl doesn't make you a better DJ, just like using CD's doesn't make you a worse one. The only real reason why vinyl's are better is because it just looks cooler. And quite frankly, anybody who really knows whats up, shouldn't give a fuck.

Also, just because you claim some vinyl djs that switched to cd's, had their mixing turn to shit, doesn't mean that every dj who uses CD's, can't mix.

Look at J00F, he spins almost entirely from CDs these days, and has some good articles on digital downloads, and how he thinks DJing will evolve away from vinyl in the near future. And I can tell you, the man can mix and rock the house.