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Originally posted by BadBadNeil It is fine to apply this to soldiers who are already in the army, but soldiers who join the army during a war time are fighting for something, not just taking orders. Look at the influx of soldiers after Pearl Harbor bombing in the US, they wanted to fight the japs that did that to our country and wanted to kill the "krauts" in germany (and this was before anyone even knew of the holocaust). The same is true with Germany, their standing army before world war II was much smaller then they suddenly had millions and millions of troops willing to take over the world.

Well I know where my nomination for "dumb fucking post of the day" is going...

Re. the German army being smaller before WW2...

One, have you heard of the Treaty of Versailles?, two, conscription tends to make your army slightly bigger than it was before THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!!

Jesus Fucking Christ sometimes people on this forum make me wanna SCREAM!!!!

quote:

It is fine to apply this to soldiers who are already in the army, but soldiers who join the army during a war time are fighting for something, not just taking orders. Look at the influx of soldiers after Pearl Harbor bombing in the US, they wanted to fight the japs that did that to our country and wanted to kill the "krauts" in germany (and this was before anyone even knew of the holocaust). The same is true with Germany, their standing army before world war II was much smaller then they suddenly had millions and millions of troops willing to take over the world.

there is a reason for joining the war, and there is a reason why u stay fighting on the frontlines even though 99% of your mind and body is telling u to run, and run, far far away. but u usually dont, and the reason for that? its not patriotism, or the "cause for which we fight". its for your own survival, to avoid dishonor by staying with your comrades so that you all may survive.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well I know where my nomination for "dumb fucking post of the day" is going... Re. the German army being smaller before WW2... One, have you heard of the Treaty of Versailles?, two, conscription tends to make your army slightly bigger than it was before THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!! Jesus Fucking Christ sometimes people on this forum make me wanna SCREAM!!!!

Did you wake up with a hangover by any chance.....LOL..

Well, my jew friends always come up to me and tell me that they rule the world ( or thats their puerpose ) .. hope that's only their immature point of view, but if thats what majority thinks, then there's a reason why there's so much hatred tours no?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well I know where my nomination for "dumb fucking post of the day" is going... Re. the German army being smaller before WW2... One, have you heard of the Treaty of Versailles?, two, conscription tends to make your army slightly bigger than it was before THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!! Jesus Fucking Christ sometimes people on this forum make me wanna SCREAM!!!!

I aim to please, Your arrogance has the exact same effect to me.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil I aim to please, Your arrogance has the exact same effect to me.

Whats worse? Arrogance or ignorance? Can arrogance be excused in the face of ignornace?

It is only ignorant not understanding the context of a comment and passing it off as "a dumb fucking post". Get over yourself for once.

It is obvious we both dislike each other so I will leave it at that. Continue to berate if you wish, it is up to you.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil It is only ignorant not understanding the context of a comment and passing it off as "a dumb fucking post". Get over yourself for once. It is obvious we both dislike each other so I will leave it at that. Continue to berate if you wish, it is up to you.

I have nothing against you! It's just that that particular post was dumb!

Anyway, being right all the time is different from being arrogant...

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Originally posted by Cal If you're in the army you do what your superior officer tells you to, it's a simple as that. That's the corner stone that allows the army as a whole to exist. So stop hassling the germans, they are the same as any other country's soldiers in WW2. They followed their orders. If you want to blame someone, blame Hitler, but the soldiers should be honoured for doing their duty.

Seems like you don't know much about how the German occupation was. Read some historical books, ask the living witnesses and you'll find out that the German soldiers wasn't just doing their orders. It was not the regular front army but the police forces that slaughtered the Warsaw Arise in 1944, killed hundreds of thousands of citizens and turned the whole city into ruins.

I recommend you this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...032840?v=glance

see the description below

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: there is a reason for joining the war, and there is a reason why u stay fighting on the frontlines even though 99% of your mind and body is telling u to run, and run, far far away. but u usually dont, and the reason for that? its not patriotism, or the "cause for which we fight". its for your own survival, to avoid dishonor by staying with your comrades so that you all may survive.

Well, yea, but sometimes it's also because you have SS and NKVD operatives behind your back with orders to shoot anyone who tries to retreat

Anyway, about the other stuff mentioned here, the truth is kinda in the middle. Yes, the average german soldier did fight because he was ordered to, he didn't do it because he had a bloodlust for jews, but he also believed in the aryan ideology that was being fed to him. The problem was that the ideology was a wee bit more brutal and agressive than other ones available, so it's kinda reasonable to have less understanding for their actions than for those of other soldiers. But aside from that, it's pretty much how it goes in every war. I think there was a research that showed that about 30% of the soldiers actually like war for the joy of killing, while the rest is pretty much pulled along by that 30%. Blame it on human stupidity and lack of reason and knowledge. It's the same as with americans of whom majority believed that Iraq was connected to 9-11, or with serbs here who thought that croatian independence will result in concentration camps and ethnic cleansing (well, they were kinda right about that to a degree)...

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Last edited by DrUg_Tit0 on Jan-26-2005 at 22:24

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Originally posted by vmc Seems like you don't know much about how the German occupation was. Read some historical books, ask the living witnesses and you'll find out that the German soldiers wasn't just doing their orders. It was not the regular front army but the police forces that slaughtered the Warsaw Arise in 1944, killed hundreds of thousands of citizens and turned the whole city into ruins. I recommend you this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...032840?v=glance see the description below

If it's SOLDIERS we are talking about why are going off on a tangent with POLICE FORCES

SOLDIERS are not the same as the POLICE are they einstein?

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You just have to understand one thing about the military. When you join up, you surrender your sense of reason, your morality, your individuality. You become an unthinking tool of your superior officer to wield as he wishes, nothing more, nothing less. In return your commanding officer takes all the moral implications of your actions on his soul FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ORDER.

So if a soldier is ordered to execute a prisoner or a million prisoners by his captain, that is acceptable because that is how ANY country's army works and how war is.

But if a soldier of his own free will goes out and shoots up a couple of civilians or prisoners because of some personal views and ideas, he should be court marshalled because he broke the law, so to speak.

The guy in the article manned his post like he was ordered. If you blame him, you blame all other good soldiers on BOTH sides for doing what soldiers are supposed to do.

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Originally posted by dj_bas wow awesome!! that's way bigger than mine

Last edited by Cal on Jan-26-2005 at 23:23