quote:

Originally posted by mto I know some of you will hate me for this and I that some of you probably know most of what i'm about to say, but i simply have to do it for those who don't. I wrote many posts supporting hip-hop whenever it was discussed/bashed on these boards, and this is another one of them. So if you care... read. Hip-hop music has made a big contribution to the music as a whole. It all started off as something that everyone with a mic and dmx machine could make, and is now a million dollar industry. However, in the late 90s hip-hop culture got to its peek and with this came all the side effects: lack of dedication, garbage material, club bangers, real em cees substituted by no talent em cees with raspy voices, and of course every teeny bopper feeding off of it. In other words, due to the fact that hip-hop hit the mainstream and due to the fact that the white youth was feeling the style, hip-hop became commercial. It still dominates the charts, it still produces new artists, however MAINSTREAM HIP-HOP IS GARBAGE. No real issues are discussed, public wants to dance rather than listen to real delivery. This is all swell, since hip-hop started off as a party movement, but it also had a serious side to it with positive and negative messages. This serious side was there from the get-go because this was a black form of music and it originated from black ghettos. These messages have disappeared and have been replaced by annoying catch phrases and flashy wordplay that has very little, if any, meaning at all. When Kool Mo Dee battled Busy Bee in the early 80s and gave the people the "lyrical" em cee instead of the "crowd rocker", he sure as hell didn't intend for the music to be solely marketed as a x-rated party genre 20 years later. But this is what has happend. You can't blame the artists without blaming the public too. Hip-hop aritst happen to be some of the poorest and most deprived of all musicians out there. Many of them struggle through the underground scene making good music their whole careers. However, when they are given a chance to make some money.. they can't pass it up. Then they make that club song that the public responds like crazy to. However, there are artists within the mainstream who manage to make good music and find success. Christopher "The Notorious BIG" Wallace was one of them. Tupac Amaru Shakur was one of them too. They both passed away, but they were replaced (at least physically) by other good artists. Wu Tang clan is still good when they get together (Besides Method Man's last release), The Roots always put out good music, Kanye West has made a classic with his 2003 debut College Dropout, Nas makes great records still, and Ghostface is the master of the flow. But, if you really want to listen to good hip-hop music and really experience how it felt when it wasn't so commercial.. then turn to the underground. Artists like Atmosphere, MF Doom, Masta Ace, Immortal Technique, Brother Ali, 7L & Esoteric, Vakill, Cormega, J-Live, Murs, Ed OG, Dead Prez, Cunninlynguists and etc. Since EDM is production-oritented community, check out the beats by underground hip-hop producers. Pete Rock is outstanding. Madlib is wicked (Madvillain - Madvillainy check the album out). Also, ANT (of Amtosphere) check out the production quality on Brother Ali's "Shadows Of The Sun" it's crazy! Really, there is so much stuff out there that is so good. You just have to look for it. You can bash me now.

Very good post.

Let it be a warning to the trance community: when things go absolutely mainstream (like what is normally associated with the words 'rap' and 'hip-hop' buy the average Jamal) quality goes downhill, and fast. As much as I love Tiesto, seeing the clips from Tiesto In Concert 2 made me sick to my stomach. He was no longer the DJ - he'd become this sort of arrogant God, controlling all the little opiated fanbase below him. No longer was the music honest and entrancing - it was this sort of hook and instant gratification used, primarily, to make money. Not cool. Money is good and all, but what ever happened to the integrity of an artist coming before that? He'd lost it. I still like the music, but I'm not optimistic about the image he is fronting.

"Let's see if this turntable is Tiesto-approved."

You. pile. of. shit.

As much as I would love to see people appreciate trance for what it is, I think that remaining a somewhat obscured genre would do its quality a lot of good. However, commercialism, by its very nature, does not give sway to thought very often.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by mto Man will you be happy. Mid 2005 Im Tech is supposed to drop his new LP. Dead Prez released "RBG" in the latter half of 2004. Get "Radio Freq", "Way Of Life", "Hell Yeah", "Fucked Up".

COOL ill be gettin that for sure

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Who Gives A Fook, Just Dance.

well i just wanted to say regarding the whole rap subject. that i do listen to quite a bit of it and have been for at least 6+ years that all the stuff they are playing now and days is crap. of course thats mainstream rap, its pretty much the same with any genre, all the mainstream stuff just plain sucks. But i find it more so with rap because its prolly the most popular genre currently, which means they have to cater to public demand. But i think great MC's (Mos Def, Talib Kweli, De La Soul , Common Sense, etc.) really have a skill that should be appreciated not to mention theyre lyrics can at times be rewarding and have something very meaningful in it, if you havent heard the Blackstar album you should definitely check it out, it might change your opinion on hip hop. of course none of these artists get played too much mainstream, and when they do its usually the garbage track but either way i think its pretty good the way it is. keep the masses ignorant

quote:

Originally posted by Ory Why just trance? Why are you people stuck on the most commercial genre of EDM? Branch the fuck out already.

You know those Zabielik elitists I speak of?

You're one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On "Let's see if this turntable is Tiesto-approved."

Another day at the office DVD?

quote:

Originally posted by Nsonic Another day at the office DVD?

I think that's what it's from. The scene where he's misnaming parts of his mixer and then starts jumping up and down for no good reason. It's like he took dance lessons from the woman in the ATRC video.

What an arrogant statement: Tiesto Approved. Maybe he was just trying to be funny or something, I can't be sure without a recognizable tone to his voice, but who the fuck cares if something is Tiesto-approved?

I like his music and all, but he's become #1 DJ... no longer a trance artist or someone who merely plays trance music on an expensive stereo. It's like... old, fat Elvis with the overextended tassles hanging off his white leather jacket vs. younger Elvis.

Things have just gone to mainstream, and I'm afraid it's already started to affect the quality of the music.

edit: I should have added a second o onto the word "to" just a few lines up. My sincerest apologies for promoting the use of insufficient grammar and spelling on these boards.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Last edited by Halcyon+On+On on Jan-20-2005 at 09:46

Rap and RNB music will take over the whole music scene ?

It already has . It is all media's fault . People listen to some
crap , and than others are like , hey lets be dumbasses , maybe we
will be cool . See this kind of stuff in highschool . I know some girls
are cool and have nice personality , but always walk singing some rap shit and swearing just to fit in . Pisses the shit out of me

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et3rn/-\l s3/-\rch of sunris3

Guys, look at it this way:

This whole Rap/HipHop/RnB Scene is now, where we were 4 years ago and in 4 years they will be, where we are now.

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rate the sound, not the artist.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of:

The rap scene now, is what trance will be 4 years from now.

Or is it absolute consensus that trance started to go downhill around 2001?

I guess you're right.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of: The rap scene now, is what trance will be 4 years from now. Or is it absolute consensus that trance started to go downhill around 2001? I guess you're right.

It's about 2000 / 2001 that Trance was big and where the tracks started to sound all the same thanks to labels like Aqualoop

2000 was a really innovative year, but after that it just went straight downhill

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rate the sound, not the artist.

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps You know those Zabielik elitists I speak of? You're one of them.

I propose that you and Ory strip nekkid and wrestle in a mud arena to settle this battle.

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Robots, machines, mechanical beings
Automatic and synthetic, we have the means
To take control of this planet and the human race
With our electronic rhythms and the Armageddon Bass