quote:

Originally posted by MadThijs You don't have any problem with the compressor with it's automatic gain? For me a normal compressor and a normalize is different then a compressor in reason on the mix which will give some volume dips. But I haven't tried your setting so you'll hear about that later.

Nope. But then again, you don't compress the whole mix like that at once.

You compress your percussion like that. Then your leads + vocals, which to me also includes the upper freqeuncies of the bassline. When I have the bassline playing alone and I bring in a lead, the bassline will fade into the background from the compressor. Again, it's not entirelly evident and often goes unoticed, but more a subtle effect that you can't really do without. Same goes with the vocals. Once the vocals are brought in, the leads are compressed, giving the vocals lots of space to sit in the mix. Take the vocals out and the leads are full again.

quote:

Originally posted by MadThijs Lowering the masterfader will shorten your dynamic range, the amount of different volumes you can use, or do I miss something here?

Dynamic range only refers to the peak to average ratio of a track. The only way you can shorten the dymamic range of a complete track is to use compression and/or limiting. By lowering the masterfader all you're doing is decreasing the volumne. The dynamic range will still be exactly the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob That's why you need a compressor on the master and possibly even on the lead. Why do you need to compress a lead? Well trance is definitly not a genre where the lead has alot of dynamic range, so you'll want to decrease that dynamic range and most importantly stop it from any having abrupt spikes or peaks(especially the case when you layer lots of leads together to make 1 phat lead). Anyway, back to your problem. Try and set this up(wait a while for it to load as it's animated ): Notice how when I increase the volumn of lead1, the compressor(really a limiter as it's set to the highest ratio) kicks in and compresses the signal source. Result = well set it up yourself and listen to what it does.

Ok I've tried it but It doesnt looks like yours, my compressor is +24DB and I dunno why...I set it up like yours. yours is 0db and mine is 24db...
look:


btw, can someone explain me what is the masterfader? it's the NN-19 master or the Mixer1 maser?

quote:

Originally posted by h.vox If host works internally at 24 or 32 bit, and you render your output to 16bit, even quantisation noise dissapears.

I beg your pardon?

Reducing bitdepth will induce quantisation noise. That's what's dithering is for, to mask the problem.

Ok not I noticed that when my track is play, the compressor stands on 0db...its ok?!

but the fader on the mixer still too low...I cant take it up coz it will clip.

Edit:
I think the only way to fix the problem is to disable my current eq and to low the bass \ treble of the melody channel..but these things make my melody alive so I must remove them.....?

Last edited by Shahar on Jan-24-2005 at 14:32

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Thy I beg your pardon? Reducing bitdepth will induce quantisation noise. That's what's dithering is for, to mask the problem.

you are right. however, i am not talking about that. my point is - you want to mix six 16bit audio tracks. the levels vary, so additional quantization noise is introduced. if you mix internally in 24 bit, and render the output in 16bit, the noise introduced in mixing stage will be audible in 23rd or maybe 22nd bit, but those bits are cut off when rendering to 16 bit. i hope this is clear now. and, of course, that is why the dithering noise is being introduced in the mastering stage.

quote:

Originally posted by Shahar Ok not I noticed that when my track is play, the compressor stands on 0db...its ok?!

level or gain reduction? if gain reduction stands on 0 dB then compressor aint working. if it's the level, then, it should be ok, since reason compressor has automatic gain.

quote:

but the fader on the mixer still too low...I cant take it up coz it will clip.

try not to look at the fader. if you burn your music on the cd, do you think anyone will think about position of master fader? it should not clip, think about that only. render your file to 24bit, limit/normalize/compress your track, and then render to 16bit. if it is nearly as loud as commercial tracks, you are on the right way.

quote:

Edit: I think the only way to fix the problem is to disable my current eq and to low the bass \ treble of the melody channel..but these things make my melody alive so I must remove them.....?

remove all bass below 60-70 Hz, that might help.

quote:

Originally posted by h.vox if gain reduction stands on 0 dB then compressor is not working. try not to look at the fader. if you burn your music on the cd, do you think anyone will think about position of master fader? it should not clip, think about that only. render your file to 24bit, limit/normalize/compress your track, and then render to 16bit. if it is nearly as loud as commercial tracks, you are on the right way. remove all bass below 60-70 Hz on the melody, that might help.

quote:

Originally posted by Shahar Ok not I noticed that when my track is play, the compressor stands on 0db...its ok?!

Is that compressor routed to the lead synth channel? You probably should set the threshold somewhat lower than that.. Maybe around -5dB, or -10dB - depends on how the sound is really. Set the compressorlevel to the point where the sound is compressed thoroughly. Add a little gain to compansate the loss of volume.

quote:

Originally posted by Shahar but the fader on the mixer still too low...I cant take it up coz it will clip.

As said earlier, you must add a comp to the masterchannel of your mixer, or a limiter. This will fix the problem with clipping.

quote:

Originally posted by Shahar Edit: I think the only way to fix the problem is to disable my current eq and to low the bass \ treble of the melody channel..but these things make my melody alive so I must remove them.....?

You don't need to do that. Just make sure everything sounds ok in terms of eq, volume, the sounds fitting the mix properly. I use a limiter, then I normalize it in a waveeditor, and then I apply the mastering to it. Hardlimiting the track, so I get the maximum level out of the track without it clipping.

quote:

Originally posted by h.vox level or gain reduction? if gain reduction stands on 0 dB then compressor aint working. if it's the level, then, it should be ok, since reason compressor has automatic gain. try not to look at the fader. if you burn your music on the cd, do you think anyone will think about position of master fader? it should not clip, think about that only. render your file to 24bit, limit/normalize/compress your track, and then render to 16bit. if it is nearly as loud as commercial tracks, you are on the right way.

about your 1st question - gain reduction stands on 0db..

how can I 'render the file to 24bit' ?

quote:

Originally posted by Beijer As said earlier, you must add a comp to the masterchannel of your mixer, or a limiter. This will fix the problem with clipping.

how can I link a comp to the masterchannel of the mixer?

This thread pisses me off lol.

Shahar: If you want me to have a look at your track and try and fix something up, PM me and I'll see what I can do. My last post on this thread.

Peace out