quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Ah...your 14? Should have guessed really!

Yup, just like Threepwood. I can hold my breath under water for 10 minutes too!

quote:

Well I have many problems with Israeli policy and if what Ariel Sharon is trying to push on us all, I would be considered anti-semitic...

If you hate Israel for its policy at indiscriminate proprotions to your hate for the policy of other nations with similar policies (i.e. the UK) you do have what he and others term a new anti-semitism symptoms

Basically you're not anti-semitic unless you want to see the destruction of the State of Israel or are discriminate against Israel.

And I believe a lot of the complaints are just that - discriminatory against Israel whereby they are not so against any other nation. Although this might not be a hate specifically against the Jews its as the article said, a hate against the Jewish nation - which is a form of racism, hence anti-semitism as well.

quote:

Why did Europeans hate the Jews more than they hated asians? Becuase there were no asians!!! Racists hate whoever is in their country who look different.

Heres a kicker for you: Jews look like Europeans.

quote:

The thing is Yoepus, you have got this silly idea into your head that in Europe, the Jews are the most hated race (and fair enuf maybe u are going on the past) but u have to realise racist people hate the ethnic minorities that are in the country at the time.

I don't have the idea that the Jews are most hated ... I have a fear that they are/will be. What I do have an idea of is that Jews have historically served as a very good canary bird if you will, for racism. If the Jews are getting hated upon, its going to be no mystery that others will soon follow.

I also have an idea that although the Jews might not be discriminated quantitatively more than other groups in Europe (i.e. Muslims), proprotionally to the Jewish population size verse the other minorties Jews are discriminated against at quietly alarming numbers.

Typically why people hate 'ethnic minorities' as you will is because they tend to be new immigrants which equals poor and uneducated people.

quote:

Early last century and before it was the Jews because it was only Jews there.

No, there were a lot of different people and sects then. Jews back then as today however were more in the news - because they tend to be a richer and smarter minority than other minorities and hence are good in business, politics, and science that gets them in the news.

Remember the Jews that are were hated back then and now are and were typically educated, integrated, civilized, speak the language, and not poor.

The pan-European hate against immigrants is slightly different as immigrants aren't educated, aren't integrated, some aren't civilized, most don't speak the language, and most are poor.

In my experience it is more for those reasons than their religion/ethnicity that they are hated. Undoubtedly just like the Israel = Jew link, the immigrant = Arab/Paki, Paki = Asian link has helped propel the islamophobia in the UK and other European nations.

quote:

Now, you put in the term Islamaphobia and Anti-Semitic and from putting those words into the search you proved your conclusions?! Honestly I dispair sometimes!

Hey come on, if it would have validated your results you woudl have thought it clever

But so what your telling me than is that Islamophobia is a denied phenomena in your nation? That's not a good thing. I knew you guys were racists

quote:

Now go back to the search and type in "racially motivated" and you go and read every single hit that comes up and tell me if they were talking about Jews or Asians...[ Ok, so I dont expect you to read the 100+ articles that come up but maybe you'd like to read this one I found?

How'd you know I wouldn't like to read them?
Anyway cute thing - but in "religiously motivated" and you up the count by a dozen or two.

The link you posted was one of the most incomprehensible pieces of writing I have ever seen. I can not make heads or tales of what they say.

Just one example:

quote:

A total of 44 religiously aggravated offences were prosecuted, with the perceived or actual religion of the victim in 22 of the cases being Muslim. In the remaining cases, the victims' religions included Christian - eight - and Jewish - five.

Ok so we have 44 religious crimes total.
Of which 22 are muslim, 8 are Christians, and 5 are Jews.
22+8+5 = 35. As far as I know 34 != 44.

Anyway it doesn't make any sense. It mentions something about 15% not being prosecuted, but that would make only 6 people. And plus that shouldn't matter on the target of the criume stat...

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

Last edited by Yoepus on Jan-27-2005 at 17:39

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus quote: Well you're not anti-semitic unless you want to see the destruction of the State of Israel or are discriminate against Israel. And I believe a lot of the complaints are just that - discriminatory against Israel whereby they are not so against any other nation. Although this might not be a hate specifically against the Jews its as the article said, a hate against the Jewish nation - which is a form of racism, hence anti-semitism as well. Well to discriminate, or to say derogatary things about Israelis, would be classed as xenophobia (which is not as bad as racism cos if xenophobia were frowned upon as much as racism, then we would not be able to diss the french which everyone has the right to do) quote: Heres a kicker for you: Jews look like Europeans. Don't make me get my dictionary out to look up 'semite'!! No seriously, dont! Some Jews look 'european' some look like Arabs... Typically why people hate 'ethnic minorities' as you will is because they tend to be new immigrants which equals poor and uneducated people. No, there were a lot of different people and sects then. Jews back then as today however were more in the news - because they tend to be a richer and smarter minority than other minorities and hence are good in business, politics, and science that gets them in the news. Remember the Jews that are were hated back then and now are and were typically educated, integrated, civilized, speak the language, and not poor. The pan-European hate against immigrants is slightly different as immigrants aren't educated, aren't integrated, some aren't civilized, most don't speak the language, and most are poor. In my experience it is more for those reasons than their religion/ethnicity that they are hated. Undoubtedly just like the Israel = Jew link, the immigrant = Arab/Paki, Paki = Asian link has helped propel the islamophobia in the UK and other European nations.

i dont think we can prove it either way but in my opinion, Jews in the past and now Muslims are subjected to racism because they belong to an alien culture. I say this because black people do not recieve as much (altho they get their fair share) of racism as Muslims. It is very common to hear people with racist tendencies to say summat like "I dont mind black people but I dont like pakis" Why? I can only assume it has something to do with culture. People dont like mosques being built, they dont like to see women walking round in burkas. Whereas black people are Christian and tend not to have their own culture. However, I do agree somewhat with your comments about immigrants, after Muslims its the east Europeans that are most hated (they are known as asylum seekers in the UK, altho they are economic migrants, not technically asylum seekers) cos they are seen as coming here to scrounge off the system

quote:

But so what your telling me than is that Islamophobia is a denied phenomena in your nation? That's not a good thing. I knew you guys were racists

Not sure what you mean but Islamophobia is quite bad in this country. One of the reasons I dont like the term is because people can say racism is ok against em because they are criticising a religion (which they have a right to do) but take the BNP for example (u remeber the thread?) They are racist towards asians, and that is called Islamapohbia, yet they can argue (like they did) that they are expressing freedom of speach to criticise religion, and Islamaphobia can lose some of its meaning.

Anyway, I take it you have accepted Muslims are picked on a hell of a lot more than Jews (who are practically not picked on at all)

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus The link you posted was one of the most incomprehensible pieces of writing I have ever seen. I can not make heads or tales of what they say. Just one example: Ok so we have 44 religious crimes total. Of which 22 are muslim, 8 are Christians, and 5 are Jews. 22+8+5 = 35. As far as I know 34 != 44. Anyway it doesn't make any sense. It mentions something about 15% not being prosecuted, but that would make only 6 people. And plus that shouldn't matter on the target of the criume stat...

Oh god...

First, there are more than three religions in the world (and the uk) right? Most of our asian immigrants came from India (and Pakistan), which means Hindus and Sheiks as well, so 9 were probly from these (or other religions)

The 15% has nothing to do with the religious bit







Look, there is no way you can bend, or criticise the writing skills of the bloke that wrote it, to suggest that Jews get more harrassment than Asians...(in fact, you made that up off the top of your head without doing one bit of research into racism in the UK)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Oh god... First, there are more than three religions in the world (and the uk) right? Most of our asian immigrants came from India (and Pakistan), which means Hindus and Sheiks as well, so 9 were probly from these (or other religions) The 15% has nothing to do with the religious bit

Look all I'm saying is its shady writing.

If the 9 were from other religions it should have said, "the rest being from other religons", or "Etc", or similar... but it shouldn't have said 8 Chrisitans and 5 Jews. Instead 8 Christians, 5 Jews, and 9 unknown/other.

The other point is the article starts out with:
"Between April 2003 and April 2004, the CPS dealt with 4,728 defendants, prosecuting 3,616, or 76% - an increase of 2% on the previous year.

It goes on "Half of the 44 victims' (victims of what?) perceived or actual religion was Muslim.

The annual racist incidents report included a full year's religiously aggravated crimes for the first time.p"

Yet the headline of the article reads: " Race crime accused increase 13%". But if itis the FIRST TIME the CPS has stats on race crime, how could there be an increae of a certain define precentage???

Also it is unclear whether the 15% is or isn't part of the 44.
After all - all it says is "About 15% were not pursued on public interest grounds, such as cases where the defendant was already being dealt with for a more serious offence.

A total of 44 religiously aggravated offences were prosecuted"

So how many were committed? 50? 51?

Look I'm not making the case here that more Jewish cases were reported... all I'm saying is it is shady reporting.

Its incomprehnsible.

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus and you should open a dictionary and look up "anti-semtic". [continues banging head]

if you confine the definition of anti-semitic to "anti-jewish" and not to prejudice against the semitic people (jews aren the only ones), it is no longer an issue of racial prejudice but prejudice on religious basis as the jews are not a homogenous race.
so use a more appropriate term if you want to refer to prejudice specifically against jews, like "anti-jewish" and not anti-semetic.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z so use a more appropriate term if you want to refer to prejudice specifically against jews, like "anti-jewish" and not anti-semetic.

Why?

This is what this word means. This is what this word was invented for.

I don't know a racist that groups Jews and Arabs in his hate as one group. And I don't know why you guys are trying to change our language either.

It is what it is, if you don't like it, don't use it. But don't pretned you don't know what it means.

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

because semitic doesnt mean only jewish.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z because semitic doesnt mean only jewish.

but anti-semitic does.

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Look all I'm saying is its shady writing. If the 9 were from other religions it should have said, "the rest being from other religons", or "Etc", or similar... but it shouldn't have said 8 Chrisitans and 5 Jews. Instead 8 Christians, 5 Jews, and 9 unknown/other. The other point is the article starts out with: "Between April 2003 and April 2004, the CPS dealt with 4,728 defendants, prosecuting 3,616, or 76% - an increase of 2% on the previous year. It goes on "Half of the 44 victims' (victims of what?) perceived or actual religion was Muslim. The annual racist incidents report included a full year's religiously aggravated crimes for the first time.p" Yet the headline of the article reads: " Race crime accused increase 13%". But if itis the FIRST TIME the CPS has stats on race crime, how could there be an increae of a certain define precentage??? Also it is unclear whether the 15% is or isn't part of the 44. After all - all it says is "About 15% were not pursued on public interest grounds, such as cases where the defendant was already being dealt with for a more serious offence. A total of 44 religiously aggravated offences were prosecuted" So how many were committed? 50? 51? Look I'm not making the case here that more Jewish cases were reported... all I'm saying is it is shady reporting. Its incomprehnsible.

You dont give up do you? I'll just keep waiting here while you go and find some figures that show the Jews are the most discriminated race in the UK and not the Muslims...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley You dont give up do you? I'll just keep waiting here while you go and find some figures that show the Jews are the most discriminated race in the UK and not the Muslims...

What'd you mean?? I've already found some figures .. remember "search terms"?!

Regardless I don't think there are accurate statistics on this stuff... and its not the point. the point was that.. bah i don't even remmeber th e point.

damn you're voodoo curses!

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.