quote:

Originally posted by Lira Sure, the mosques, the scientific legacy, farming techniques, and the words introduced to the Portuguese language were indeed stolen from the Romans. In fact, Fátima is not an Arab word (for example, and this is a word you ought to know if you're a Christian) and this is an example of the quintessential Roman arquitecture: This is in Spain, by the way. It's a shame Christian destroyed many buildings left by the Moors edit: By the way, back in the time when the Moors were in the Iberian peninsula, muslims, christians and jews got along quite well

Cordoba... one of the most beautiful cities I have ever been to. The Mezquita was simply and utterly impressive.

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quote:

Originally posted by malek er no, Lebanon had a comfortable Christian majority before the civil war, since then, most Christians have left to South America, Europe, Canada, USA, etc, etc. There literaly millions of Christian Lebanese outside of Lebanon. Now its around 60/40 in favor of muslims and the only reason why Christians have some power left is because in the new consitution every ethnic group is guaranteed a fixed position in the govt (the prime minister should be coming from this group, the president from that group, etc etc...) Essentially, those in favor of Syrian activities in Lebanon are Muslim, and those against it are Christians. In Syria it used to be 25% or so Christian, now its a mere 5-10%.

Christians still make up a large proportion of the population (39%) while Muslims make up 59.7% (and that includes Sunnis and Shiites so taking those two separately may make the Christians the largest group??)

Also, the fact that the Christians are guaranteed representation in government (the Presidency) seems to run counter to your claim that there is no future for Christians in Lebanon...

I'm not too sure about which groups support Syrian occupation (obviously the Christians are against) as altho Syria allows Hizbollah to operate, I'm not sure whether the Shiites support continuing occupation (altho I must point out that is merely an assumption)

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Originally posted by malek and you guys especially Lira, talking about cultural "benefits" have no idea what the hell you're talking about. You never went to a muslim country, you don't know how it is over there, ...

I'm talking about what has happened since the beginning of time, in India, Greece, Japan, England... what happens when two (or more) different cultures "meet". It works

In an extremely simplified way of viewing it, if the Islam conquered Europe, the result would be a blending of the old European values (thesis) and the new Islamic arrival (antithesis). This would produce the obvious synthesis, the subproducts. Once the two cultures merged, it would indeed bring benefits, as the knowledge of both backgrounds would be unified.

I'm going to give you a small example. As you might know, Brazil's been colonised by the European, even though we had Native Brazilians here. They were slaughtered, but their culture is still alive in Brazilian's daily life. Then we had the Africans coming here, and once again our culture went through major changes. That turned Europe's greatest parties (such as carnival) into a completely different thing, for example.

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Last edited by Lira on Feb-04-2005 at 23:38

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Originally posted by josh4 See this is one thing American culture is good for. After a couple years in America any religious fanatic will soon become so lazy they won't care about religion anymore. Not that they don't believe, they just don't care. Seeing the next episode of CSI becomes a higher priority.

Or '24' or Power Rangers... LOL

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Originally posted by Lira I'm talking about what has happened since the beginning of time, in India, Greece, Japan, England... what happens when two (or more) different cultures "meet". It works In an extremely simplified way of viewing it, if the Islam conquered Europe, the result would be a blending of the old European values (thesis) and the new Islamic arrival (antithesis). This would produce the obvious synthesis, the subproducts. Once the two cultures merged, it would indeed bring benefits, as the knowledge of both backgrounds would be unified. I'm going to give you a small example. As you might know, Brazil's been colonised by the European, even though we had Native Brazilians here. They were slaughtered, but their culture is still alive in Brazilian's daily life. Then we had the Africans coming here, and once again our culture went through major changes. That turned Europe's greatest parties (such as carnival) into a completely different thing, for example.

That doesn't apply to Islam.

How many people do you know practice Zorastorism in Persia/Iran? What about Christians in Turkey (one of the centers of early Christianity)?

Any Buddhists left in Indonesia or Malaysia? Not many.

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i liked the large fonts as it was a nice way to highlight interesting points, and I found the article very argumentative, and enjoyed the part about Lord of the Rings.


this is a very scary situation, especially as time goes on and it gets easier and easier for these zionist groups to get nuclear weapons

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf That doesn't apply to Islam. How many people do you know practice Zorastorism in Persia/Iran? What about Christians in Turkey (one of the centers of early Christianity)? Any Buddhists left in Indonesia or Malaysia? Not many.

Malaysia:
53% Muslim
17% Buddist
12% Confucianism and Taoism
7% Hindi,
7% Christian, Sikh and Animism

20% is quite a fair amount of followers, since Buddhism had never had supremacy in Malaysia (it lived along with Hinduism). Besides, Islam arrived there in the 14th century, so it's quite well established.

Indonesia:
87% Muslim
7% Protestant
3%Catholic
2% Hindi and
1% Buddhist

Islam arrived during the collapse of the Hindu and Buddhist empires, and it was acquired by assimilation. Not much different from what happened in Europe with Christianism, is it?

Iran:
Ever heard of the Baha'i faith? Well, that's what I'm talking about.

Turkey:
Turkey is more secular than most Muslim countries, having a clear separation between Church and state, and the constitution recognises freedom of religion. The proximity with Europe probably has been a major factor for such attitude. The number of non-moslems has been falling because of migration, aging and Islamic influence.

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And in what point exactly what I said doesn't apply to Islam? Did you really expect Islamism to disappear after being acquired by local cultures? I said it's been influenced, and you can clearly see that in the differences between each country.

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dude, stop quoting some books...

have you gone to a muslim country?

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Originally posted by malek dude, stop quoting some books... have you gone to a muslim country?

I'm really curious to find out why Islam would be completely different than any other religion, to the point it becomes an exception when in contact with other cultures despite of what's been previously mentioned. No matter how violent or fanatic they are, it's already happened before.

So, Malek, what would make Islam stand out? You said they wanted to take over the world (which is nothing new, as that's been part of the Christian church for centuries) and that they're religiously intolerant (once again, the Christian church has been guilty of that as well), but you didn't mention any peculiarities.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira You said they wanted to take over the world (which is nothing new, as that's been part of the Christian church for centuries)

You see, the thing is it has been a part of Christianity, but in these modern times there is no room for such thinking and unfortunately there are many fanatic religious Islamic groups who still see that as their main goal.

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Originally posted by DJ-Kreing^^ You see, the thing is it has been a part of Christianity,

was it cold in the hole you've been hiding? we have people saying that christianity is the fundamental necessity of democracy in the states, and those same people are fearful of the indoctrination of other religions into our side of the world.

dude.. one day in the southeast us, and you'll realize that muslims aren't the only one's still trying to take over the world.

sorry you're getting the brunt of the force, but we have our own zelots to contend with.

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Originally posted by malek dude, stop quoting some books... have you gone to a muslim country?

Well, I suppose not all muslim countries are the same. Turkey, Jordan, or Malaysia shouldn't be that problematic to live in...

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