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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1

Thank God there are some true Conservatives out there that are not buying into this:



Another good story on this here:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...o_conservatives

So how’s that pandering to these fundie extremists going for you Republicans? Are you as uncomfortable as Congressman Shays is about this whole thing, or are you still believing this is truly a case of “compassionate” conservatism?


Here Opus, this should get you drooling :

quote:

Comment: Andrew Sullivan: Bush’s triumph conceals the great conservative crack-up



It should be the best of times for American conservatism. Republican majorities in the House and Senate, a re-elected Republican president, an increasing number of Republican governors and a rightwards tilt in the judiciary. While the British Tories and German Christian Democrats flounder, America’s right seems to flourish.
Well, that’s the cover story. Beneath the surface, however, American conservatism is in increasing trouble. The Republican coalition, always fragile, now depends as much on the haplessness of the Democrats as on its own internal logic. On foreign and domestic policy alike the American right is splintering. With no obvious successor to George W Bush that splintering will deepen.



Take foreign policy. At the moment Bush is riding high as his democratisation push seems to have made some modest progress in the Middle East. But the Iraq war was deeply controversial among conservatives before the war and it has become more so since. Old school conservatives — or “realists”, as they call themselves — had no time for nation building or for wars of liberation among cultures they viewed as irredeemably undemocratic.

Neoconservatives — many of them former Democrats and liberals — saw spreading liberty as integral to a successful foreign policy. The Iraq war brought the two wings together on the threat from Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction.

When the WMDs failed to appear, the insurgency grew, and the commitment of 140,000 troops to secure freedom among Arabs seemed to stretch endlessly ahead, restlessness on the right revived. It was suppressed for political reasons before polling day but Bush’s re-election and his lack of any obvious successor have allowed the divisions to blossom.

If you look at the magazine The American Conservative, for example, you will find Patrick Buchanan’s Stone Age conservative isolationism almost indistinguishable from the hard left’s in its loathing of Middle East policy.

Last week a more mainstream conservative journal, The National Interest, saw a slew of editors quit because it published a tough realist article criticising the Iraq invasion. The neocons left to form a rival journal, The American Interest. Francis Fukuyama of “end of history” fame, was one of them.

Back home the differences over fiscal policy are also profound. President Bush has added $1 trillion (£520 billion) to the national debt in only four years and is proposing to add at least another $2 trillion with his social security reform. With his Medicare prescription drug benefit, about whose massive expense he deceived Congress, he has enacted the biggest new entitlement since Lyndon Johnson. Bush has increased spending on medical care for the poor by 46%. He has doubled education spending in four years; federal housing spending has gone up 86%.

Compared with Bill Clinton, he’s an extreme, big government liberal. In fact the only real difference between the Democrats and Republicans at this point is that the Democrats believe in big, solvent government and the Republicans believe in an even bigger, insolvent government.

Conservatives are complaining. Two powerful think tanks, the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation, have published critiques of Bush’s fiscal policies. Heritage called for an outright repeal of the new healthcare entitlement.

Bush’s social security reform plan appears all but dead in the Senate, because he is now trying to flatline some minor but sensitive domestic spending, veto any attempt to rein in the far more expensive entitlement explosion while keeping his tax cuts. Moderates and fiscal conservatives are finally saying no.

Unless the Republicans are going to add even more trillions to the national debt, something has to give. Tax rises are off the table. And the divisions are so deep among Republicans that they may not be able to pass a budget this year at all.

On social policy the rifts are not as deep, largely because the religious right now all but owns the Republican party. Gone are the days when Ronald Reagan said: “The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralised authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.”

The Republicans have plans to intervene directly in many people’s lives — spending billions on sexual abstinence education, marriage counselling, anti-drug propaganda, a war on steroids, mentoring programmes for former prisoners, and on and on. Got a problem? Bush’s big government is here to help.

Where Republicans once believed that states should have priority over the federal government, Bush has pushed in the opposite direction. Last week the religious right wanted a federal ruling to prevent a Florida woman in a persistent vegetative state from having her life-support cut off. This is a job for the federal government?


They have overruled state laws on medical cannabis and tried to prevent states from making their own policies on gay civil marriage. In the 1980s Republicans wanted to abolish the federal Department of Education, believing local control was best. Bush has all but ended local control, introduced national standards and added a huge increase in federal spending. No wonder Ted Kennedy, the arch liberal Democratic senator, voted for the bill.
How these contradictions can be resolved is hard to see. Is conservatism now paternalist, spending huge amounts of federal money to guide people into more moral lives? Or is it about restraining government so people can make up their own minds how to live?



Do deficits matter? Is the point of foreign policy the pursuit of national interest or the spread of human freedom? Or are they inextricable? Are tax cuts defensible if accompanied by big spending rises? Is American libertarianism dead? Bush’s four years have put all these questions on the table.

In my view if a Democratic president had Bush’s record, the Republican party would have come close to impeaching him for his adventures in big government, fiscal insanity and foreign policy liberalism. But it swallowed its principles and covered up its differences to keep him (and itself) in power. The consequences are slowly becoming clear.

The race to succeed Bush will become, in part, a battle for the future of American conservatism. I have no idea how it will turn out. But I do have one clear prediction: the Republican internal battle in the next four years is going to be bloody. After the mid-term elections in 2006 it will be brutal.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...33089_2,00.html


Wow check out the entitlements part. I always told you guys Bush was more of a democrat than the democrats .


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Old Post Mar-23-2005 22:08  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Here Opus, this should get you drooling :



Wow check out the entitlements part. I always told you guys Bush was more of a democrat than the democrats .


I think it's a given that the Republicans are going to lose some seats in the '06 election. It's the inevitable for 2nd term majorities and Presidents. The question is how many? When hacks like Sullivan and Brooks can smell the blood in the water, you know there's trouble a brewing. And as much as I can't stand this ultimate HACK of conservative hacks, Bob Novak, he does admittedly have an ear to the wall in D.C., and his connections are well known (ahem, Valerie Plame anyone?). So it's no surprise he states similar notions:

quote:
WASHINGTON -- Analysts at the Republican National Committee (RNC) have sent this warning to the House of Representatives: the party is in danger of losing 25 seats in the 2006 election and, therefore, of losing control of the House for the first time since the 1994 election.

Although some Republicans on Capitol Hill believe the RNC is just trying to frighten them, concern about keeping the present 232 to 202 edge pervades GOP ranks. The second mid-term election of an eight-year presidency often produces heavy congressional losses for the party in power.

A footnote: Rep. Christopher Shays, re-elected from his Connecticut district last year with 52 percent, is considered by colleagues as the most vulnerable Republican incumbent. Other especially shaky GOP House members include Jim Gerlach of Pennsylvania and Rob Simmons of Connecticut.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/nova...t-novak201.html


Also take note the part about Shays. Interesting, to say the least.


___________________
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with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Mar-23-2005 22:24  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

Well the full 11th Circuit of Appeals court have handed down the decision in a 10-2 ruling. So now we see Jeb Bush trying to pull a little magic out of his ass and grab yet another dissenting doctor out of the woodwork (wonder why they didn't use the same quack?):

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...vo-ruling_x.htm

And the Florida Senate who've been Jeb's bitch in the past denied an initial bill by Jeb that forces the tube back in (21-18 ruling):

quote:
Meanwhile, the Florida Senate rejected a bill that would restart food and hydration for 41-year-old Terri Schiavo, whose feeding tube was removed Friday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html


So now Jeb's trying to get another bill passed that essentially takes custody of Terry by this doctor's assessment, even though he has not been able to fully examine her:

quote:
The doctor reviewed Schiavo's medical records, watched videotapes and observed her at the hospice, but was not able to personally examine her, state officials said.


And you'll also note that Bush is wisely starting to back off here, probably noting just how unpopular his position is here.

You can't write scripts better than this shit!


Edit: Update - oops, the same article in the NYTimes explains a state judge shoves Jeb's request up his ass:

quote:
In Florida, meanwhile, a state judge rebuffed the latest efforts by Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene in the case by taking custody of Ms. Schiavo so that another doctor could review her condition. The governor said earlier today that a "renowned neurologist" who visited with Ms. Schiavo for an hour recently does not agree that she is in a "persistent vegetative state," as other doctors testified to the courts.

...Attorneys for the state filed a motion to take custody of Ms. Schiavo, but the judge, George W. Greer of Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court, the same one who ordered the tube removed on Friday, turned down the request after a brief hearing late this afternoon.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/23/national/23cnd-schiavo.html?ex=1269234000&en=0afe9735539a477b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland


Woohoo, keep 'em comin' govna!


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Last edited by MisterOpus1 on Mar-24-2005 at 00:09

Old Post Mar-23-2005 23:59  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

Spot on commentary:

quote:
A Violation
I'm going to pile on to what larre writes, because the actions of the republican dictated Congress cannot be allowed to just stand w/o pointing out the danger it represents.

Terry Schiavo has, literally, nothing to do with this case, but this case has everything to do with you and I. Megan’s Law was written because of Megan, not for her, but for Society as a whole. Laws are written for Society, not for, and I know this comes as a shock to big corporations or businesspeople that seek to get laws written just to benefit themselves, individuals.

While the bugkiller can claim his piety, while bush can claim his complications, while the righteous can claim their divinity, what remains is that the freaking republicans have conspired to reach out and violate the Courts, the States, and the Citizens of this country. Our adherence to the laws of the land is somewhat voluntary you know, but bushco seeks to make it un-precedented as well, just like the broker that reminds you that past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Just like the dice at the craps table.

From this non-precedent case, how long will it be before they try to force a woman to carry that fetus to term? How long before they tell you where you can live? How long before they tell you what kind of education you can get and where? How long before they tell you what god to worship? How long before Guantanamo moves Stateside? And what in hell happened to the freaking Sanctity of Marriage crap that these world class hippocritters have been so orgiastically railing about since rove decided it would stimulate the base?



They can hold you prisoner without any Constitutional Protections, if they so choose. They can torture you if they so choose, so what makes this case any different, except in degree? They can deny some the same right as others to marry, but deny the married the same rights as an un-responsible adult parent. The law is supposed to be equal to all, remember Gore vs Shrub and "equal protection;" the notion that exceptions prove the rule is just an absurd palliative (sorry larre) to ease our consciences and the bitter burning sensation that reality can and does produce.

But now, the republican dictated Congress has said otherwise. They have said that some are more equal than others. And that's supposed to be okay, and a fair swap to save the life of this truly messed up woman.

But it's not okay. It's as wrong as you can get. Sure, the circumstances make it appealing and appalling, troubling and tragic, emotional and cerebral (how ironic is that?), and gosh golly, good teevee, but the circumstances can't obviate the fact that this decision, this reprehensible action by the republican Congress (and don't tell me about the Democrats, it's frist and delay and rove and santorum el al, as sanctimonious as ever) is a direct assault on the very basic tenets that this country was founded on, and that millions have died for, and bled for, and sacrificed for, the notion that we are all equal under the eyes of the state, that no one person is above the law, or below the law.

The Federal State has no business in this case, because this case has no business with the State. It's a personal tragedy, and it’s only the gross selfishness of the parents that has made it the spectacle that it has become. Or does the Catholic Religion have more primacy in this country than the Constitution? Maybe that's the crux of the matter. Maybe that's why the republican controlled Congress has decided to trample all over the laws and rights of this nation, so that they can push their stinking religiosity on the people of this land?

Could that be it? Or could their abuse of this woman and this families extremis be cover for something else, something uglier and dirtier? We've heard about the talking points circulating in gopper circles, and we’ve noticed that bush's approval ratings stink, and Social Security Privatization is having a rough go, maybe the faithful need a pep talk? Maybe this is just a cold, crass manipulation by rove to prop up the ol’ bush family evil empire?

I repeat, Terry Schiavo has, literally, nothing to do with this case; this case has everything to do with you and I. Megan’s Law was written because of Megan, not for her, but for Society as a whole. Laws are written for Society, not for, and I know this comes as a shock to big corporations or businesspeople that seek to get laws written just to benefit themselves, individuals.

Laws don't dictate our behaviors, they dictate the consequences of our behaviors on our Society. Run a stop sign, pay a fine; it's a monetary reminder that hurts a little, but warns us that we might kill somebody Mr. Janklow and suffer a much larger hurt.

This is my rant, it’s not about Terri Schiavo, it’s about the cowardly bullies in the republican party led by the biggest coward of the lot, tom delay, who usually gets lots, and I mean LOTS, of cover hiding behind the spineless gym coach and 3rd in line in succession to the bush throne denny hastert, it’s about the assault and battery these traitors to their oaths are conducting on this nation, this perversion of governance whose sole intent is to perpetuate their choke hold on my country for their benefit and self aggrandizement into perpetuity. And it must not stand.

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/003970.php#more


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Mar-24-2005 00:11  United States
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wolverine16
Pilgrim Pete



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago, USA

quote:
CANYON LAKE, Texas — A family tragedy unfolding in a Texas hospital during the fall of 1988 was a private ordeal -- without judges, emergency sessions of Congress or the raging debate outside Terri Schiavo's Florida hospice.

The patient then was a 65-year-old drilling contractor, badly injured in a freak accident at his home. Among the family standing vigil at Brooke Army Medical Center was a grieving junior congressman -- U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas.

More than 16 years ago, far from the political passions that have defined the Schiavo controversy, the DeLay family endured its own wrenching end-of-life crisis. The man in a coma, kept alive by intravenous lines and a ventilator, was DeLay's father, Charles Ray DeLay.

Then, freshly re-elected to a third term in the House, DeLay waited all but helpless for the verdict of doctors.

Today, as House Majority Leader, DeLay has teamed with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to champion political intervention the Schaivo case. He pushed emergency legislation through congress to shift the legal case from Florida state courts to the federal judiciary.

And he is among the strongest advocates of keeping the woman, who doctors say has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, connected to her feeding tube. DeLay has denounced Schiavo's husband, as well as judges, for committing what he calls "an act of barbarism" in removing the tube.

In 1988, however, there was no such fiery rhetoric as the congressman quietly joined the sad family consensus to let his father die.

"There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the congressman's 81-year-old mother, recalled in an interview last week. "There was no way he (Charles) wanted to live like that. Tom knew, we all knew, his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way."

Doctors advised that he would "basically be a vegetable," said the congressman's aunt, JoAnne DeLay.

When the man's kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connecting him to a dialysis machine. "Extraordinary measures to prolong life were not initiated," said his medical report, citing "agreement with the family's wishes." His bedside chart carried the instruction: "Do Not Resuscitate."

On Dec. 14, 1988, the senior DeLay "expired with his family in attendance."

"The situation faced by the congressman's family was entirely different than Terri Schiavo's," said a spokesman for DeLay, who declined requests for an interview.

"The only thing keeping her alive is the food and water we all need to survive. His father was on a ventilator and other machines to sustain him," said Dan Allen, DeLay's news aide.

There were also these similarities: Both stricken patients were severely brain damaged. Both were incapable of surviving without continuing medical assistance. Both were said to have expressed a desire to be spared life sustained by machine. And neither left a living will.

This previously unpublished account of the majority leader's personal brush with life-ending decisions was assembled from court files, medical records and interviews with family members.

It was a pleasant late afternoon in the Hill Country of Texas on Nov. 17, 1988.

At the home of Charles and Maxine DeLay, set on a limestone bluff of cedars and live oaks above Turkey Cove, it also was a moment of triumph.

Charles and his brother, Jerry DeLay, two avid tinkerers, had just finished work on a new backyard tram -- an elevator-like device to carry passengers from the house down a 200-foot slope to the blue-green waters of Canyon Lake.

The two men called for their wives to hop aboard. Charles pushed the button and the maiden run began. Within seconds a horrific screeching noise echoed across the still lake, "a sickening sound," said a neighbor. The tram was in trouble.

Maxine, seated up front in the four-passenger trolley, said her husband repeatedly tried to engage the emergency brake but the rail car kept picking up speed. Halfway down the bank it was free-wheeling, according to accident investigators.

Moments later, it jumped the track and slammed into a tree, scattering passengers and twisted debris in all directions.

"It was awful, just awful," recalled Karl Braddick, now 86, the DeLays' neighbor at the time and a family friend. "I came running over, and it was a terrible sight."

He called for emergency help. Rescue workers had trouble bringing injured victims up the steep terrain. Jerry's wife, JoAnne, suffered broken bones and a shattered elbow. Charles, hurled head-first into a tree, clearly was in serious condition.

"He was all but gone," said Braddick, gesturing at the spot of the accident as he offered a visitor a ride down to the lake in his own tram. "He would have been better off if he'd died right there and then."

But Charles DeLay hung on. In the ambulance on his way to the New Braunfels hospital 15 miles away, he tried to speak.

"He wasn't making any sense; it was mainly just cuss words," recalled Maxine with a faint, fond smile.

His grave condition dictated a short stay at the local hospital. Four hours later, he was airlifted by helicopter to the medical center at Fort Sam Houston. Admission records show he arrived with multiple injuries, including broken ribs and a brain hemorrhage.

Tom DeLay flew to his father's bedside where, along with his two brothers and a sister, they joined Maxine. In the weeks that followed, the congressman made repeated trips back from Washington, D.C., his family said. Maxine seldom left her husband's side.

"Mama stayed at the hospital with him all the time. Oh, it was terrible for everyone," said Alvina (Vi) Skogen, a former sister-in-law of the congressman. Neighbor Braddick visited the hospital and said it seemed very clear to everyone there was little prospect of recovery.

"He had no consciousness that I could see," Braddick said. "He did a bit of moaning and groaning, I guess, but you could see there was no way he was coming back."

Maxine DeLay agreed that she was never aware of any consciousness on her husband's part during the long days of her bedside vigil -- with one possible exception.

"Whenever Randy walked into the room, his heart, his pulse rate would go up a little bit," she said of their son, Randall, the congressman's younger brother, who lives near Houston.

Over a period of days, doctors conducted a series of tests, including scans of his head, face, neck and abdomen. They checked for lung damage, performing a bronchoscopy and later a tracheotomy to assist his breathing. But the procedures could not prevent steady deterioration.

Then, infections complicated the senior DeLay's fight for life. Finally, his organs began to fail. The family and physicians confronted the dreaded choice so many other Americans have faced: to make heroic efforts, or to let the end come.

"Daddy did not want to be a vegetable," said Skogen, one of his daughters-in-law at the time. "There was no decision for the family to make. He made it for them."

The preliminary decision to withhold dialysis and other treatments fell to Maxine along with Randall and her daughter Tena -- and, his mother, said, "Tom went along." He raised no objection, she said.

Family members said they prayed.

Jerry DeLay "felt terribly about the accident," said his wife, JoAnne DeLay. "He prayed that if (Charles) couldn't have quality of life that God would take him -- and that is exactly what He did."

Charles Ray DeLay died at 3:17 a.m., according to his death certificate, 27 days after plummeting down the hillside.

The family then turned to lawyers.

In 1990 the DeLays filed suit against Midcap Bearing Corporation of San Antonio and Lovejoy Inc. of Illinois, the distributor and maker of a coupling that they said failed and caused the tram to hurtle out of control down the steep bank.

The family's wrongful death lawsuit accused the companies of negligence and sought actual and punitive damages. Lawyers for the companies denied the allegations and countersued the surviving designer of the tram system, Jerry DeLay.

The case thrust Congressman DeLay into decidedly unfamiliar territory -- the list of plaintiffs on the front page of a civil complaint. He is an outspoken defender of business against what he calls the crippling effects of "predatory, self-serving litigation."

The DeLay family litigation sought unspecified compensation for, among other things, the dead father's "physical pain and suffering, mental anguish and trauma," and the mother's grief, sorrow and loss of companionship.

Their lawsuit also alleged violations of the Texas product liability law.

The DeLay case moved slowly through the Texas judicial system, accumulating more than 500 pages of motions, affidavits and disclosures over nearly three years. Among the affidavits was one filed by the congressman, but family members said he had little direct involvement in the lawsuit, leaving that to his attorney brother, Randall.

Rep. DeLay, who since has taken a leading role promoting congressional tort reform, wants to rein in trial lawyers to protect American business from what he calls "frivolous, parasitic lawsuits" that raise insurance premiums and "kill jobs."

In September, he expressed something less than warm sentiment for attorneys when he took the floor of the House to condemn trial lawyers who, he said, "get fat off the pain (of plaintiffs and off) the hard work (of defendants)."

Aides for DeLay defended his role as a plaintiff in the family lawsuit, saying he did not follow the legal case and was not aware of its final outcome.

The case was resolved in 1993 with payment of an undisclosed sum of about $250,000, according to sources familiar with an out of court settlement. DeLay signed over his share of any proceeds to his mother, said DeLay aides.

Three years later, DeLay cosponsored a bill specifically designed to override state laws on product liability such as the one cited in his family's lawsuit. The legislation provided sweeping exemptions for sellers of such products.

The 1996 bill was rejected by President Clinton.

In his veto message the president said he objected to the DeLay-backed measure because it "tilts against American families and would deprive them of the ability to recover fully when they are injured by a defective product."'

After her husband's death, Maxine DeLay scrapped the mangled tram at the bottom of the hill and sold the family lake house.

Today she lives alone in a Houston senior citizen residence. Like much of the country, she follows news developments in the Schiavo case and her congressman son's recently prominent role.

She acknowledges questions that compare her family's decision in 1988 to the Schiavo conflict today with a slight smile. "It's certainly interesting, isn't it?"

Like her son, she believes there might be hope for Terri Schiavo's recovery. That's what makes her family's experience different, she says. Charles had no hope.

"There was no chance he was ever coming back," she said.


Source

Although it would be rather difficult to come back in this case as well if you look at the facts.


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Old Post Mar-27-2005 06:59  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
Oh there's plenty of hypocrisy to go around

It goes further than just Tom Delay. Remember that Franciscan Brother of Peace who's been a spokesman for the Schindler's? Well guess what they've done in the past with their dear old grand poobah?:

quote:
In 1982, Michael Gaworski founded the order.

The fledgling group took over a former convent and the Brothers began collecting food and clothing for the needy, ministering to international survivors of torture, witnessing at a juvenile detention center and conducting sidewalk counseling at abortion clinics.

Gaworski suffered a heart attack in 1991 that left him in a condition similar to that of Terri Schiavo - with severe brain damage and dependent on a feeding tube for nourishment. For the next 12 years, the friars cared for Gaworski in their downtown St. Paul friary.

"Through his condition," Brother John Kaspari said Tuesday from St. Paul, "we came to embrace others in similar states."

Gaworski contracted pneumonia and died in 2003 at age 45.

"He would have required intubation to keep him alive," Kaspari said. "We chose not to go that route. His lungs were full of fluid."
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/23/T...hindlers_.shtml



Hmmmmmm.....


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Mar-28-2005 16:42  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

Oops, forgot one of my favorite Senator fundie nutbags from my neighbor state, Oklahoma - Tom Coburn:

Now:

quote:
Among them was Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma and a family practice doctor, who said in an interview, 'I don't think you have to examine her. All you have to do is look at her on TV. Any doctor with any conscience can look at her and know that she does not have a terminal disease and know that she has some function.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/23/p...ner=rssuserland


Before:

quote:
[In] an interview after [Coburn]'s panel appearance, he conceded the issue of caring for a terminally ill patient brings with it complex questions and is not always simple. For example, under certain circumstances when there is no hope of recovery, he said physicians should have the option of withholding nutrients and water from a dying patient. Coburn said he has done that in the past. 'If somebody does not want a feeding tube, I won't put a feeding tube down,' he said.

Source: Tulsa World, 7/20/98


Hmmmmm......


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Mar-28-2005 16:46  United States
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igottaknow
PerfectTeeth R4 Dinosaurs



Registered: Feb 2001
Location: The Future

Tom Delay is a lock for the...

Hypocrite of the Year Award

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTEwd...gtY3Nz/s/234582

Deciteful Conservative Republicans strike again!

Last edited by igottaknow on Mar-29-2005 at 00:33

Old Post Mar-28-2005 21:01 
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

Geez. JUST SHUT UP!
All I hear day in day out for the past week since I returned from vacaiton is Schaibo this Schaibo that! Its driving me insane

Who in their rights minds gives a damn?!

This is nothing new (vegitable wanting to die). Everybody should just shut up and let whoever and whatever be. Its ridicilous, its 24/7 on all the news shows (interrupted of course by Michael Jackson's trial updates).

US News simply sucks. Its horrible, you wouldn't even know we are at war or that there are "other issues" in this world.

Sad, sad, sad.

*end viscious rant*


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Old Post Mar-29-2005 00:28  Israel
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
Geez. JUST SHUT UP!
All I hear day in day out for the past week since I returned from vacaiton is Schaibo this Schaibo that! Its driving me insane

Who in their rights minds gives a damn?!

This is nothing new (vegitable wanting to die). Everybody should just shut up and let whoever and whatever be. Its ridicilous, its 24/7 on all the news shows (interrupted of course by Michael Jackson's trial updates).

US News simply sucks. Its horrible, you wouldn't even know we are at war or that there are "other issues" in this world.

Sad, sad, sad.

*end viscious rant*


Ahem. It's Schiavo, which you would know if you were watching the news.

Old Post Mar-29-2005 00:54  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala
Satan (eek!) Windows Media

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus

US News simply sucks. Its horrible, you wouldn't even know we are at war or that there are "other issues" in this world.


Robert McChesny, Co-founder Free Press
Subject: Goebbels model of the press



Bernie Sanders, Independent Representative of Vermont

(right click, save as...)

Old Post Mar-29-2005 05:44  United States
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
US News simply sucks. Its horrible, you wouldn't even know we are at war or that there are "other issues" in this world.

Sad, sad, sad.


I completely agree with you there dude.

Old Post Mar-29-2005 05:57  United States
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