Id love it if we dropped our anti-american views. Because without them we cant prosper. Sure I hate GWB too but we cant keep biting the hand that feeds us.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 The real quesiton here is...do you want a government that mismanaged a few hundred million dollars in an effort to keep the country together....OR...do you want an administration with a PM that will have his head so far up Georg Dubbya's that we won't be able to see his feet?

It's the Lieberals that created the national unity problem in the first place.


-the Quiet Revolution happened under the Lieberals
-Rene Leveque came out of the Lieberal Party
-the Flag Flap and de-Britishization of Canada happened under the Lieberals
-the FLQ / October Crisis (with the UNPRECEDENTED calling of martial law) happened under the Trudeau Lieberals
-the Lieberals forced bilingualism on English-speaking provinces
-the PQ separatist government came to power in 1976 with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the anglophone diaspora happened with the Lieberals in power
-the 1980 Quebec referendum happened with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the divisive 1982 "constitution" was put into place with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa (which Quebec HAS STILL NOT SIGNED)
-the Western Canada Concept and other western separatists came to prominance with the Trudeau Lieberals in Ottawa
-the 1995 Quebec referendum happened with the Chretien Lieberals in Ottawa
-AdScam, which is currently fueling anger in Quebec, happened under the Lieberals


The Lieberals are tearing this country apart!




http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ol=968350116795

Liberals give separatists kiss of life again

CHANTAL HÉBERT
Apr. 15, 2005. 01:00 AM

If the Liberal Party of Canada did not exist, the Quebec sovereignty movement might have to invent it.

With the sponsorship scandal, the federal Liberals have given the cause of Quebec sovereignty the breath of life for the third time in little more than two decades.

It first happened under Pierre Trudeau, when the Constitution was patriated against the will of the Quebec National Assembly.

Then Trudeau and Jean Chrétien led the fight against the Meech Lake Accord.

Before the accord foundered, support for sovereignty sat at its lowest level in years. If Meech had passed, few sovereignists could imagine a scenario that would allow for a referendum rematch.

The failure of the accord also gave birth to the Bloc Québécois. For the federal Liberals who had lost francophone Quebec decisively after patriation, that actually came with a silver lining.

The advent of the Bloc made it next to impossible for a national alternative to the Liberals to grow strong roots in Quebec. That, in turn, makes it difficult for a party other than the Liberals to secure a majority government nationally.

But at least the patriation and the Meech battles were fought on the field of ideas. By allowing the sponsorship scandal to unfold on its watch, the Liberal party has outdone itself for no greater cause, it appears, than its own interest or that of some of its associates.

In the days before the scandal broke, sovereignty had many of the features of a spent force.

The Parti Québécois had just registered its lowest score in decades in a provincial election and the Bloc feared its turn was soon to come in the upcoming federal campaign.

Instead, it rode the scandal backlash to its best showing since the pre-referendum era.

The revelations that have since come to light at the Gomery commission ensure that whenever the next election takes place, the Bloc will improve on that high score.

The Liberals have joined the Conservatives and the NDP as non-contenders in francophone Quebec. Such is their predicament that they have fallen to third place, far behind the BQ.

In the next campaign, Stephen Harper and Jack Layton will actually find it easier to draft candidates in Quebec than Martin.

Very few people want to run for a party that is routinely equated with corruption around the water coolers.

Against this backdrop, the Prime Minister is arguing that Harper will be gambling with national unity for his own partisan interest if he defeats Martin's minority government over the sponsorship scandal.

But the Bloc is set to dominate Quebec for at least one and maybe two more election cycles.

Martin's core argument really is that if voters outside Quebec ever chose to replace the Liberals with the Conservatives, that party's agenda would push Quebecers to bolt from the federation.

But if Quebecers' attachment to Canada was so fragile, they would surely have left in the face of the Liberal constitutional moves of the past decades.

Indeed, compared to Meech or patriation, the sponsorship scandal does not seriously register on the Richter scale of unity earthquakes.

In 1990, Quebecers were so angry over the demise of Meech that they massively wanted to turn their backs on Canada. They clamoured for a referendum.

In the case of the sponsorship scandal, it is the Liberal party that they are turning their backs on in disgust. But that feeling has, so far, not translated into an outburst of referendum fever.

From Quebec's perspective, if the next federal election is to be a litmus test of anything Canadian, it may be of the capacity of the rest of the country to hold its nose and reward Liberal efforts to smother the political stench of the sponsorship affair with the flag.


also see: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...ano-050425.html

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

Last edited by ShadoWolf on Apr-26-2005 at 17:26

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf It's the Lieberals that created the national unity problem in the first place.

If you knew your history you would understand that the French English clevage is actually a result of the situation in which the French Canadiens find themselves rather then due to any particular political party. They are the only French culture surrounded by English culture. Immigrants learn English not French.... traditionally business was conducted in English not French, the federal laws are based on British law not Nepolionic Code, they are less then a third of the countries population however believe themselves to be 50% responsible for it's creation, the British tried to breed them out of existance (remember the recommendations in the Durham Report).... Shit, I'd be a little frightened for the future of my culture as well. This fear ellicited a response or rather responses.... the examples you cite are largely responses to this fear.

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quote:

Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

Actually up to the middle of the last century it was the english minority in quebec that was oppressed. When they started making gains in business ventures there the seperatists got upset and started the sovereignty movement. Trudeau only made it worse.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Actually up to the middle of the last century it was the english minority in quebec that was oppressed. When they started making gains in business ventures there the seperatists got upset and started the sovereignty movement. Trudeau only made it worse.

Very incorrect.... Traditionally the capital in Quebec was owned by the English. The Eatons, the Molsons, the Seagrams, the Martins, etc all English Quebecers. The English were controling the capital. This is why one of the biggest goals in the Quiet Revolution was to support French owned business and to promote business education amongst the French.

I do agree, however, that Trudeau inflamed the seperatists. That being said you should recall that he once was one.

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quote:

Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard If you knew your history you would understand that the French English clevage is actually a result of the situation in which the French Canadiens find themselves rather then due to any particular political party. They are the only French culture surrounded by English culture. Immigrants learn English not French.... traditionally business was conducted in English not French, the federal laws are based on British law not Nepolionic Code, they are less then a third of the countries population however believe themselves to be 50% responsible for it's creation, the British tried to breed them out of existance (remember the recommendations in the Durham Report).... Shit, I'd be a little frightened for the future of my culture as well. This fear ellicited a response or rather responses.... the examples you cite are largely responses to this fear.

The British defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham. They could have wiped out the French completely, but instead came up with a uniquely Canadian compromise - the Quebec Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Act

However, that's not the point. The schism since 1960 has not been between English and French, but Quebec and the rest of Canada.

From the French defeat on the Plains of Abraham until 1960, there was no majority sentiment for separation. It wasn't until the Liberal-led Quiet Revolution that the paradigm shifted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution


It's the Liberal Party alone that created the spectre of Quebec separation and the breakup of Canada.

___________________
Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf The British defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham. They could have wiped out the French completely, but instead came up with a uniquely Canadian compromise - the Quebec Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Act However, that's not the point. The schism since 1960 has not been between English and French, but Quebec and the rest of Canada. From the French defeat on the Plains of Abraham until 1960, there was no majority sentiment for separation. It wasn't until the Liberal-led Quiet Revolution that the paradigm shifted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution It's the Liberal Party alone that created the spectre of Quebec separation and the breakup of Canada.

The Quebec Act was a good compromise, however it was British not Canadian.

I agree with you that the Quiet Revolution, the FLQ crisis, and the reforendums happened on the Liberal's watch, however, they were not exclusively reactions to Liberal actions. The separatist movement is more about preserving the culture of Quebec then it is about escaping tyranical Liberal rule. To attribute the English French clevage to one party or to the party system in general exhibits a very narrow understanding of the political culture that exists in this country.

BTW, the Quiet Revolution was a movement to revitalize the French in Quebec not to separate. The FLQ movement was a response to the failures of the Quiet Revolution.

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quote:

Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Id love it if we dropped our anti-american views. Because without them we cant prosper.

I am in total agreement.

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quote:

Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard The Quebec Act was a good compromise, however it was British not Canadian. I agree with you that the Quiet Revolution, the FLQ crisis, and the reforendums happened on the Liberal's watch, however, they were not exclusively reactions to Liberal actions. The separatist movement is more about preserving the culture of Quebec then it is about escaping tyranical Liberal rule. To attribute the English French clevage to one party or to the party system in general exhibits a very narrow understanding of the political culture that exists in this country. BTW, the Quiet Revolution was a movement to revitalize the French in Quebec not to separate. The FLQ movement was a response to the failures of the Quiet Revolution.

NO, the separatist movement is NOT about culture! You don't need a separate country to maintain your culture: just look at Quebec today, or the American south.

Quebec separation is about money and power. By threatening to separate, Quebec gets money and influence from the rest of Canada.

The Liberals are responsible for playing that game to get votes in Quebec, thus once again putting their party ahead of the nation.

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

quote:

[i][b], the British tried to breed them out of existance (remember the recommendations in the Durham Report)

Actually, the British Government did little to follow Durham's recommendations in 1841, except to divide the two Canadas again. French culture never would have survived without the Quebec Act of 1774, in which the British allowed French citizens to retain their religion, language and land which the American colonists wanted to take from them. Guy Carelton and James Murray both blocked American merchantment from taking over businesses in Quebec to show the French some compassion. Of course, all this did was piss off the Americans and is a seldom mentioned (but still very significant) reason of the American Revolution.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Id love it if we dropped our anti-american views. Because without them we cant prosper. Sure I hate GWB too but we cant keep biting the hand that feeds us.

Maintaining a healthy economic relationship shouldn't mean we have to give in to all their demands. Most Canadians support same sex marriage. Most Canadians are in favour of abortion and are against the death penalty. Most Canadians do not trust the Americans and wanted no part of Iraq or Missile Defence. Yet Harper, no matter how hard he tries to hide it, went against the grain on every issue. Say what you want about Paul Martin, but to me, he's far more Canadian than Harper, who is just an Albertan American dressed in red.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Maintaining a healthy economic relationship shouldn't mean we have to give in to all their demands.

These days we don't listen to anything they say.

quote:

Most Canadians support same sex marriage.

Actually, more than two-thirds of Canadians OPPOSE same-sex "marraige," although a great many are open to civil unions.

http://www.compas.ca/data/050202-SameSex-EPC.pdf

quote:

Most Canadians do not trust the Americans and wanted no part of Iraq or Missile Defence.

If you explained the issue of missle defense properly, a strong majority would be in favour of it.

http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/spotlig...zie041229a.html

Iraq is a different story. We stayed out of the war because the Lieberals had ties to Saddam Hussein, so get off your high horse.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=241010

quote:

Harper, who is just an Albertan American dressed in red.

Harper was born and raised in Toronto.

Your utter contempt for the west is why Ontario is hated in the rest of Canada.

___________________
Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

Last edited by ShadoWolf on Apr-27-2005 at 00:03