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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Is U.S. in Slow Motion to Socialism?
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

Furthermore, from Foreign Policy:

quote:
Do people understand what Paul really stands for? Like every siren song, his policies are fraught with danger. Let's take a look:

1. Foreign Policy and the Constitution. Paul is what you might call a Constitutional originalist. He divines his governing philosophy from the Constitution and America's Founders. But his understanding of their vision is profoundly flawed. Paul appears to believe the founders vested absolute authority for foreign-policy making in Congress, not the executive. "Policy is policy," Paul wrote in 2006, "and it must be made by the legislature and not the executive." But there's almost no evidence the founders saw it in such simplistic, absolute terms. Law professor Michael Ramsey, a former clerk for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, recently noted (pdf) this in very eloquent terms in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy. Reasonable people can agree that Congress has failed its oversight responsibilities with regard to Iraq and the Bush Doctrine. But Paul's thinking here is simply not supported by the weight of historical evidence.

2. "Noninterventionism." This is the word Paul uses to describe his foreign policy, and he insists the term also encapsulates the vision of the Founders. While Paul claims "noninterventionism" is not isolationism, it sure sounds like it is. For instance, he even seeks to dismantle the Bretton Woods system of international cooperation born from the ashes of the Second World War (more on that below). Isolationism by any name, friends, is still isolationism. Sure, such sentiments were rampant in 18th and 19th century America and before WWII. The same sentiments are resurfacing today as a backlash against Iraq. Intelligent people can disagree about the Bush Doctrine's place in history. But let's not make up facts. [b]The post-9/11 period has been filled with literature by such historians as John Lewis Gaddis and Walter Russell Mead debunking the notion that the founders were only concerned with domestic security and never saw an ideological component to America's place in the world.[b]


John Lewis Gaddis, by the way, is probably the best international relations scholar in the post-WWII world.

quote:

3. Iraq. Let's assume Paul is right that foreign-policymaking powers are vested in the Congress. Why, then, does he keep promising that as president he will "immediately" pull U.S. troops out of Iraq? Presumably he intends to govern as he says the Founders intended. But there's a deep contradiction here. If as president he will have no authority to execute foreign policy except as Congress dictates, how can he promise on the campaign trail to get American troops out of Iraq? I don't get it.

And let's focus for a second on the word "immediate." This is a cheap campaign trick. People in the know agree it will take between six and 14 months to get the troops and equipment out. Paul might seek to immediately begin getting the troops out. But don't be fooled. It's going to be a long and costly process. Or does Paul just intend to leave the equipment and bases behind for the Iraqis to use in the ensuing civil war?

4. "World governmental organizations." That's how Paul refers to the Bretton Woods institutions. He wants America out of the World Trade Organization, the North America Free Trade Agreement, and the United Nations, among others. Paul's official Web site warns visitors: "Both the WTO and CAFTA could force Americans to get a doctor's prescription to take herbs and vitamins. Alternative treatments could be banned." There is a fine line between Rudy's fear mongering over 9/11 and Ron's fear mongering over the United Nations, friends. Next comes talk of black helicopters. The U.N. has problems, sure, but does anyone serious really believe that the world would be better off without the United Nations? And, given that there's no indication other countries are about to close the doors on these institutions -- many of which the United States in fact founded -- isn't America better off having some influence within them? Paul says that, without clout inside the system of institutions which binds all other modern nations, America will be strong thanks to "open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy." Sure, and we can all sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya with Kim Jong Il.

5. Iran. As recently as April 2006, Paul said, "Iran does not have a nuclear weapon and there's no evidence that she is working on one—only conjecture." I'm for unconditional, bilateral dialogue with Iran. I believe there's time to deal with Tehran in non-military terms. But you'd have to be a fool to believe Ahmadinejad when he says his nuclear program is for peaceful purposes. In fact, I can't think of a single person in the foreign-policy community who thinks Iran's nuclear intentions are pure. Earth to Ron, come in Ron.

Ron Paul's candidacy was fun. I get as much of a kick out of seeing the antiwar left rally behind a guy who has no problem with folks carrying concealed Uzis as the next guy. But play time is over. We're two months away from the first primaries. And Ron Paul's 15 minutes are up.



http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/6863


So yes, it appears that I have done my homework on Ron Paul, but I appreciate you accusing me of ignorance anyway.


___________________

Old Post Nov-02-2007 23:45  United Nations
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Furthermore, from Foreign Policy:



John Lewis Gaddis, by the way, is probably the best international relations scholar in the post-WWII world.




http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/6863


So yes, it appears that I have done my homework on Ron Paul, but I appreciate you accusing me of ignorance anyway.


It's amazing to see how many "experts" they have in their corral.

Have you watched the G. Edgar Griffin video that I posted where he interviewed Norman Dodd?

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:11  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
It's amazing to see how many "experts" they have in their corral.

Have you watched the G. Edgar Griffin video that I posted where he interviewed Norman Dodd?



What broad brush strokes you use! John Lewis Gaddis is suddenly not reputable just because he doesn't support a conspiracy theory that you so fervently support??

Foreign Policy, fyi, is not the same as Foreign Affairs, the publication that is run by CFR. In fact, Foreign Affairs has every reason to be critical of CFR since they are competing publications... so again, how does this fit into your conspiracy theory puzzle?


___________________

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:30  United Nations
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DJ Shibby
Amphoteric Superbase



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Of Earthzen and the Therethen

quote:
Originally posted by ams.rld
Those eight cents could be better used elsewhere...


It says a lot of negative things about your personality and unhealthy world view that would point out those 8 cents and not the obvious 42 cents...

Good luck man...

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:34  United States
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DJ Shibby
Amphoteric Superbase



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Of Earthzen and the Therethen

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
I agree. That's the Fabian Socialist element which has come to pervade our society.


Explain to me how NOT helping the poorest members of your society is EVER a good thing?

We're human beings for fucks sake, life comes before dollar bills.

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:35  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
What broad brush strokes you use! John Lewis Gaddis is suddenly not reputable just because he doesn't support a conspiracy theory that you so fervently support??

Foreign Policy, fyi, is not the same as Foreign Affairs, the publication that is run by CFR. In fact, Foreign Affairs has every reason to be critical of CFR since they are competing publications... so again, how does this fit into your conspiracy theory puzzle?


I never said that he's not reputable, I'm just saying that I don't necessarily trust him.

They're probably all related in one way or another.

Foreign Policy is funded by the Carnegie Endowment but I'm sure you're going to want to start to debate that issue now seeing as how the Carnegie Endowment, like many of the other politically maneuvered non-profits, does a lot of good (when looking at it's surface.)

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:40  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
I never said that he's not reputable, I'm just saying that I don't necessarily trust him. [QUOTE]

Ok, that's fair, but before you make your judgment you should know that he is one of the most universally-respected political scientists in the field, and a staple in any academic program in the country.


[QUOTE]
Foreign Policy is funded by the Carnegie Endowment but I'm sure you're going to want to start to debate that issue now seeing as how the Carnegie Endowment, like many of the other politically maneuvered non-profits, does a lot of good (when looking at it's surface.)


Right, and Carnegie competes directly with CFR for prominent intellectuals and policy-makers, as well as influence within either party of the political establishment. So I don't see the basis for assuming they are in collusion with one another.


___________________

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:44  United Nations
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Shibby
Explain to me how NOT helping the poorest members of your society is EVER a good thing?

We're human beings for fucks sake, life comes before dollar bills.


I never said that not helping people is a good thing. I just don't think that people should be dependant upon the government for their outside needs because that particular dependency in itself would quickly begin to be fostered through an ever increasing amount of social programs.

And what ever happened to volunteer work? Doesn't anyone do that anymore or are they all so busy at their regular jobs (often times just in order to put food on their tables) that they don't have the time to help others on their own accord? I'm sure that's a part of it but I also think that people have just become extremely selfish.

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:53  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Right, and Carnegie competes directly with CFR for prominent intellectuals and policy-makers, as well as influence within either party of the political establishment. So I don't see the basis for assuming they are in collusion with one another.


How about David Rockefeller's Trilateral Commission? Where do you think they fit in, in your opinion?

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:56  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
How about the Trilateral Commission? Where do you think they fit in, in your opinion?



They are more dubious than CFR, I'll allow that. But they're over-hyped in my opinion. I see them as fairly toothless, and more symbolic than anything. If the world's most powerful and wealthy businessmen and politicians really wanted to create a system of global governance, they would have by now.


___________________

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:57  United Nations
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Shibby
It says a lot of negative things about your personality and unhealthy world view that would point out those 8 cents and not the obvious 42 cents...

Good luck man...


The whole point should be that none of that spending is really necessary if the function of our government hadn't grown by such leaps and bounds to be what it is today.

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:58  United States
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
If the world's most powerful and wealthy businessmen and politicians really wanted to create a system of global governance, they would have by now.



Don't worry, they're still working on it. The need to finish molding public opinion first.

Old Post Nov-03-2007 00:59  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Is U.S. in Slow Motion to Socialism?
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